GWR (Generally World Ranking)

[Trigger Happy]

Well, only 14 of 51 drivers in GWR for current month are not Polish. That's actually the bigger problem.

Truth.

We experienced French years, Italian years, Brazilian years, no problem with dominance of another nation now. But I think nobody above suggests something else.

On other hand if individual standings contain some math system reballancing amount of events vs. skill, then maybe in nations some can be too. In past in general standings of nations was counted only 5 actual best racers per nation, not sure, why it was abolished.

I don't think GRPL F1 entry system is very relevant to the problem, it came bit too late and it's also matter of other things, e.g. WRC entry list is now much more ''international'', it simply takes some time.

[Areen]

Would you prefer that GRPL F1/GP2 series never join this forum?

To be honest...YES. We already have PGR F1 series, which is perfectly organizate and running every year. But it's only my

I can only say that was completly disrespectful and negative from you. Thank you so much!

[puttz]

About that: I've found this championship: Generally World League - Season 23. One of the rules says:

Only selected drivers can take part in GWL.

So, this is clearly championship not free to enter, and points are calculated as for any other championship.

That is also true, and the same could be said of GRC, with both of those being more restrictive than PGRF1. So perhaps that argument really isn't relevant. And I'm sure that no team manager would reject an application for no reason at all, or really any reason, just to make that clear. Although there is still the problem of F1 being rather pre-populated with lots of Polish drivers. Maybe there should be a cap on the number of drivers that contribute to nations ranking in any single event. @Areen, I'm glad to see these series go international, it gives racers more options We're in a nice boom of compos at the moment it seems, and the more, the better.

[Mad Dan]

I'm not for rejecting this series . Why are we getting in fight guys??? the problem is beautiful, too many drivers
We need some sort of filtration on how many drivers can score for nations from each race, maybe something simmilar to rule 3.3.4) Score calculations for drivers but with limited number of drivers that would score 100% of points for said nation and then some number that'd score 75% and so on

[Areen]

It's funny because you want to punish people because they want to drive. That's just ridiculous.

[puttz]

Not true, we just want to try to keep a balance on the nation's cup when there's a ton more Polish racers than there are of any other nation. When one country is almost 16,000 points ahead of all the other countries, and has more points than all the other nations combined, something needs to be fixed. Poland still should be winning the nation's cup, but not by such a huge margin. That lead is because of the sheer volume of drivers, not because all the drivers have that much more skill than those of all other nations. That's what the issue is. And we're not singling you out, Areen, but it is mainly because of GRPLF1 and other GRPL compos suddenly going international that this has happened.

[Areen]

I think there is only a balance thing to do with actual system. I don't want situation, where someone's effort would not be counted because there is too many Poles... I thought that there will be no such problems with F1 / GP2 leagues again, but it looks like it's not a good place to invite people with open hands and having fun all together. Anyway, thanks a lot, it tells me a lot about our league and what people expect.

[Trigger Happy]

It's funny because you want to punish people because they want to drive. That's just ridiculous.

How does it differ from this part of rules about standings of individual drivers?

3.3.4) Score calculations for drivers
Whole year :
- Score of race (or hotlap, or timetrial) category = points of the 8 best results x1 + points of the next 8 best results x1/2 + points of the next 8 best results x1/4 + ...
- Score for general classification = points of the top 4 results x1 (whatever the category) + points of the next 8 best races and 8 best hotlaps and 8 best timetrials x1 + points of the next 8 best races and 8 best hotlaps and 8 best timetrials x1/2 + points of the next 8 best races and 8 best hotlaps and 8 best timetrials x1/4 + ...

For each month :
- Score of race (or hotlap, or timetrial) category = points of the 2 best results x1 + points of the next 2 best results x1/2 + points of the next 2 best results x1/4 + ...
- Score for general classification = points of the best results x1 (whatever the category) + points of the next 2 best races and 2 best hotlaps and 2 best timetrials x1 + points of the next 2 best races and 2 best hotlaps and 2 best timetrials x1/2 + points of the next 2 best races and 2 best hotlaps and 2 best timetrials x1/4 + ...

Actually I find it a little bit illogical, that such thing is applied in individuals' standings, but not occurs in teams and nations. But just my .

[Mad Dan]

Oh man why are you taking this so personally? I know some people here are happy with GP2 and such, I'm very excited about WRC...
I'm curious about jo.sk's view on this thing .

[kuba]

@Toumo
I believe somehow it's applied to nation standings as well - e.g. here: http://joskgr.free.fr/GWR/2014/03-NG.html we have scores and points columns.

@Dan
I'd say because he spent many hours (read: weeks or even months) managing website, forum, preparing rules, calendar and results, and not only during last season, but 3 earlier ones too.

[puttz]

Yes, we are happy to have the compos, Areen. There are no personal attacks here, just a comment on a seemingly unfair situation for the other countries because all these drivers (some of which, I may add, are not on this forum) from the same country because the series was previously limited to drivers only from that country. After all, those series didn't even count for GWR before this current season. And since GWR is a world ranking, it seems a little unfair that, even though it is open to any nation if they can qualify for the series, a series with only drivers from one country would cause their world ranking points to be so much larger than those of the other countries. Although, perhaps maybe we shouldn't be so focused on GWR, but rather having fun in each individual compo and treating each compo as such, rather than trying to get the best ranking across lots of compos.

[Trigger Happy]

Kuba, it was meant to towards my post, right? Yeah, it seems you're right, but only indirectly considering moments, when an individual falls within the limit on his own? But no direct application of anything like the limits regarding nations/teams attendance, correct? And that's what Dan proposed - to create another parallel set of rules for teams/nations (with no effect of the rule focused on individuals).

And about the Areen, well, the point of discussion isn't either to hurt the F1/GP2 or deprive Poles from the lead of GWR or from racing. But he's acting like that.

[kuba]

Ivo, I guess it's similar to what is explained in rules about individual and team formulas.

Anyway, we have to wait until Jo explains us how it's done right now and, more important - what are his, if any, suggestions about what to change. Because we can be sure about one thing - Jo will find the best solution for this situation.

[Trigger Happy]

And only a side note: about the GWL, yes, it was only for selected drivers, but not randomly - in order of GWR seeded drivers (current month as example) and free seats filled by further drivers in the order. Same GRC with a clearly reasoned black list. Nothing wrong about such thing, when the system or reasons are obvious from beginning to everybody. F1/GP2 falls under it too (as Areen said, all started in GP2), but I'm not that surprised, that some people were at the beginning bit not trusting or were confused, when F1/GP2 was introduced here to them with most seats and teams already filled/with team ''managers'' set and a mysterious licence test in a rush. It's simply all about failing communication between people, sometimes things aren't as obvious to others as may seem to the first person. But it can be solved, by talking with and listening each other.

[Areen]

Although, perhaps maybe we shouldn't be so focused on GWR, but rather having fun in each individual compo and treating each compo as such, rather than trying to get the best ranking across lots of compos.

That's the point...

but I'm not that surprised, that some people were at the beginning bit not trusting or were confused, when F1/GP2 was introduced here to them with most seats and teams already filled/with team ''managers'' set and a mysterious licence test in a rush. It's simply all about failing communication between people, sometimes things aren't as obvious to others as may seem to the first person. But it can be solved, by talking with and listening each other.

Sorry for a bit confusing beggining, we already solved these things.

[TuomoH]

Although, perhaps maybe we shouldn't be so focused on GWR, but rather having fun in each individual compo and treating each compo as such, rather than trying to get the best ranking across lots of compos.

Well, this is a GWR thread and I saw an imbalance under the current ruling, that's why I brought it up. It's nothing personal against anyone.

Btw, like Mad Dan, I also am looking forward to driving the rally series so it's definitely not meant to be aimed against the Polish guys - without you I would still continue my racing break.

[Jo.sk]

Then, I've just read all your posts and ...

And only a side note: about the GWL, yes, it was only for selected drivers, but not randomly - in order of GWR seeded drivers (current month as example) and free seats filled by further drivers in the order. Same GRC with a clearly reasoned black list. Nothing wrong about such thing, when the system or reasons are obvious from beginning to everybody.

Excellent summary about GWR and GRC !

About GRPL F1, I have to admit that this championship is not fully free but :
- I did not see this detail before the beginning of the championship (by lack of time).
- nobody complained about that before/during the season.
- now the season is finished and it's too late to make a claim.

About Polish domination, I understand the point of view of TuomoH. I don't have anything against Poland but it would be better with another points calculation.
The change would be retroactive until the beginning of the year but the nations ranking would have to stay approximately the same with (imperatively !) Poland in 1st position.
Currently I don't have the time to test another point system, but I will do that as soon as possible!

[Jo.sk]

I did some tests
I applied the teams point system to the nations :

Look the rules for more details about current teams point system : http://joskgr.free.fr/GWR/rules/Rules.html

With this rule the rankings of Januray and February would become :

January : new system (old system)
1) POL 1512 (5778)
2) CRO 438 (774)
3) CZE 363 (781)
4) BRA 344 (581)
5) GER 289 (398)

February : new system (old system)
1) POL 1127 (4682)
2) CZE 831 (1024)
3) CRO 728 (790)
4) ESP 609 (553)
5) USA 496 (524)

[kuba]

Currently teams numbers are twice drivers ones, so I was thinking about nations numbers to be twice of teams ones.

[FRUKIScze]

The national standing is now good. Good job Jo.sk

But when i look onto it, i think, that GRPL World Rally championship is too much over powered. fe. In teams, RK M-Sport WRT has drove only in 2 races, and it got 672 points. Only in 2 races!

[Mad Dan]

Thats because of how many people raced in these events, it makes total sense.

[puttz]

And also the length/difficulty of the event probably had a part of it,too. Those points are fair, it's all by the rules that any other series is under. If other series had as many participants, it would be much the same.

[Jo.sk]

The national standing is now good. Good job Jo.sk

But when i look onto it, i think, that GRPL World Rally championship is too much over powered. fe. In teams, RK M-Sport WRT has drove only in 2 races, and it got 672 points. Only in 2 races!

A lot of points are given, but it's because of :
- the attendance, about 30 drivers.
- the number of tracks.
-> the victory is more difficult and more training is needed.

[Gera]

Little mistake: http://joskgr.free.fr/GWR/2014/04-R.html#2801
Rally Guanajuato Mexico, not Rally Sweden again

[Jo.sk]

Little mistake: http://joskgr.free.fr/GWR/2014/04-R.html#2801
Rally Guanajuato Mexico, not Rally Sweden again

fixed, thanks