F1 - Season 2011 *Spoiler*

[Trigger Happy]

For me DRS on every track is stupid . The leader can make big advantage on slow cars like HRT and Lotus . This is the most stupid things in F1!!! Races aren't good with DRS. They have lost a flame and embers in overtaking . For me it isn't fun to watch F1 anymore because there is to little funny and hard overtakes, and when I know that Vettel will win almost every race .

If a group-leading car gets DRS because of slower car lap back, then it's IMHO actually good thing, because it at least eliminates the unfair advantage, which all other cars behind him receive during the race. Otherwise he'd be only car on track, which can never benefit from DRS. But I'd also prefer other things to solve it - like better track design or 10 times per race move of rev limiter from 19 000 to 21 for few seconds - would be cheap, effective, technically simplier, without location/positions limits and the engines wouldn't suffer, because were originally designed for higher revs.

[Lukeno94]

Changing the rev limit is bad for fuel economy and the engines will be designed only to do 19k, not 21k. If we do ever get to the turbo engines, then an overboost function could be available.

[XYY]

For me it isn't fun to watch F1 anymore because there is to little funny and hard overtakes, and when I know that Vettel will win almost every race .

But honestly, was it any different when Michael Schumacher was in his heyday? I think he won many seasons and races there.
And btw, I don't think that Sebastian Vettel is such a good driver. Of course, he performed quite good in the 2009 season when Red Bulls weren't maybe as fast as theyre today. And Suchmacher e.g. didn't directly score so fast after getting into the F1. But honestly, which good drivers are left? Almost no-one. So it almost only depends on the car, and because some guys invest money in the adverts at the side of Vettel's car, he's able to win always. If you ask me, that's only profit mentality and no motorsport
And about DRS, I don't know. I think it just takes the suspense away becuase you use it and then you can just pass the slower car instead of fighting for few laps to get a good passing opportunity...

[Trigger Happy]

Changing the rev limit is bad for fuel economy and the engines will be designed only to do 19k, not 21k. If we do ever get to the turbo engines, then an overboost function could be available.

I wasn't talking about new, but current engines (which were frozen in development years ago and constructed originally for more revs) and this current season instead the DRS experiment, which we observe now.

[Lukeno94]

DRS is required because cars still can't follow other cars properly, they have too much downforce and such, and to slow them down in this regard might mean other formulae need modifying as well.

[Trigger Happy]

''DRS is required because cars still can't follow other cars properly'' is indeed truth (sad one), but giving aero advantage to the following car is only one of options, how temporarily increase its overall performance to balance that disadvantage, isn't it.

Sorry, but I cannot see, where I mention anything slowing the current cars down causing need of modifying other classes, so I don't get that second part.

[Lukeno94]

You didn't, but if you back F1 cars off too much, then some of the lower formulae might need slowing slightly as well (to keep a big enough gap between them).

[Trigger Happy]

So may I ask, how it is relevant for our discussion about DRS, which isn't pleasing us very much, and its alternatives?

Maybe I should add, that I meant the revs thing as quick solution done without major changes on overall concept same like was the DRS addon. I thing you're very right, that a change of concept for F1s to solve it may require redefining other formula levels too and haven't anything against it, if it will give us nice racing.

[cocney]

Every sport in the world was invented for entertaining people not for earning money. Bernie wants to have a lot of money and he doesn't think about people who watch F1! When I had 10 years i didn't miss a race but now i rarely watch them. Now everything depends on money. Teams who have good sponsors and a lot of money, they will fight for 1st place but others will suffer. F1 mustn't become AMERICAN tour in which way it going. In my opinion, with all this new stuff in F1 people above 20 years will get bored watching F1 and younger people won't watch it.

[Buka]

Oh, I finally watched the race in Abu Dhabi. And it was the happiest race for me since Canada Vettel failed, no RBR on podium - what can be better? Oh yes, it could be better if Raikkonen signed up Williams for the next season. Well, I can wait for it a bit.

[Trigger Happy]

@ cocney: Grand Prix means great/main prize - in money, that why lot of drivers was entering the grid during decades. Even the first big pre-GP races were created to popularize cars as transport option and manufactures were joining it for advertising their product and selling it piece by piece - drivers were either their testing driver or constructor himself or a very wealthy man, who had some passion for adventures but also free resources to buy something as expensive as car or airplane and spent it for this fun. Maybe no other sport is so joined to business (together to passion) since it's early days 'till now. The only difference is, that when we are younger, we cannot see these things as well as later.

I guess, that the end of the disillusion about importance of money is a moment, when people must choose, if to keep or abandon their interest about motorsport, and often leave. I'd do too, if it would be just about the money, but IMHO isn't - even in the damn money-addected F1 are hundreds of people in factories and garages, who can find equally paid or easier job elsewhere with their high skills, so something other keeps them there.

[GeneSuomi]

For me DRS on every track is stupid . The leader can make big advantage on slow cars like HRT and Lotus . This is the most stupid things in F1!!! Races aren't good with DRS. They have lost a flame and embers in overtaking . For me it isn't fun to watch F1 anymore because there is to little funny and hard overtakes, and when I know that Vettel will win almost every race .

If a group-leading car gets DRS because of slower car lap back, then it's IMHO actually good thing, because it at least eliminates the unfair advantage, which all other cars behind him receive during the race.

This was bad thing?

[Trigger Happy]

This was bad thing?

But I think you talk about completely other detail than I was - allowing free racing between over-lapped and fast car without blue flags enforcement (no matter if the leader or 3rd, 7th car) is something very different than if leader won't be allowed use DRS when catches last cars, when all other cars in race can do same to overtake them. DRS for leader to overtake the cars while overlapping is indeed fair, either allow DRS for all in this move or ban to all, no reason to discriminate race leader only like Cocney was wishing.

[GeneSuomi]

Well, giving the "free-pass" button for a leader while lapping Virgins takes one aspect out of being a good racing driver. I've heard that Senna has told that he learned how to sneak through traffics by following Keke Rosbergs exemple. Algersuari and Maldonado got time penaltyes in AbbeliDhabbeli because of ignoring blue flags. I think it might be difficult to follow the marshals while fighting for positions so, something could be done for the lapping rules. Maybe more responsibility for guys who are overtaking?

[Trigger Happy]

I agree with you with exemption of one word in first sentence - ''Well, giving the "free-pass" button for a leader while ..''. If you'll explain me, why is good to take it away to e.g. Vettel for this overtaking while leading the race and not to e.g. Hamilton, who goes 10 secs behind him and will overlap that same slow car 7-10 curves or a lap later too but with the DRS (or e.g. vice versa, if suddenly pit stopping will change this order upside-down), then I can agree fully, otherwise I really think the leader should the option too or if DRS banned for overlapping overtakes, then for all drivers equally in this situation no matter on their actual position in race.

[GeneSuomi]

Sorry, I meant every driver, of course I would like to see that every racer are in equal position by rules. For exemple, I don't like the rule that top10 has to start with tyres they used in Q3. I don't understand why you get penalized for being fast. I know that the point is that the guys outside top10 could catch and overtake the leaders but still...

[DuklaLiberec]

Helmet view footage from Sebastian Vettel's view :

[Buka]

Finally this nightmare season is over. This so called 'champion' felt in my eyes even deeper (I couldn't imagine it was possible) when he compared himself with Senna (Ayrton). Even worse: I'm sure RBR invent the gearbox problem just to let Webber win. Pathetic team, pathetic you-know-who, pathetic Webber.

[RudyOosterndijk]

I agree with you about these Senna references all over the place: Vettel mentioning it, all those helmet liveries (Hamilton, Barrichello, ...). I appreciate the enthusiasm people feel about a certain driver but for me that was more than enough.

Well, the rest of your statement... how shall I put that in a diplomatic way... if you post that in the Vettel section of motorsport forums, the word "troll" will be the most pleasant one to come to your ears (hear my criticism towards these forums, too!?)

But I also agree that a 1-2 in that particular order was the result RedBull could only dream of - with Webber finally having his moment of success. Some might think of a conspiracy, some might think it was a mechanical failure that was long overdue.

In the end you're right: Bring on a closer fight in 2012!

[1nsane]

Welp, I wouldn't call the season a nightmare. If nothing else, at least the first 3-4 races would save a season easily. Those races were just overloaded with action. And a good level of action kept on going throughout the season. Yes, the championship was sealed in about 2 races, but behind that one guy it was still quite close racing. But then again, Vettel is a well deserved champion. He managed to pull the car in front even during the races the RB shouldn't have dominated. And his qualifying level is on a different planet from the other drivers. To be fair, the season would have been at least a bit closer if a certain someone (Yes, Hamilton) didn't decide to forget how to drive a car.

But I have to agree, hopefully the two other top teams can catch RBR up.

[Trigger Happy]

Vettel didn't said he's Senna (or as good as). He said he feels like Senna could feel on Interlagos in 1991. If you know, how the race went, you know what he meant by the note. Also this past example shows, that gearbox failure not always means, that a guy experiencing it cannot end on podium, especially if you have today-terribly-slow Alonso behind (although I have no illusions about current Red Bull).

And agreeing with 1nsane, if anybody deserves , then Hamilton. And from teams I'd says Renault, for ''fair play'' towards their drivers (Heidfeld, Kubica and Petrov) and fail in any development of car.

[DuklaLiberec]

Yeah, it's a shame that Renault wasn't as good as the beginning of the season, because I wanted to see more podiums of Petrov and Heidfeld.

[GeneSuomi]

I think that it's a good thing that Vettel was so much better than the others. I mean, Red Bull built the best car and Vettel made no mistakes. (well, perhaps in Canada). So don't they deserve to be the best of the best of the best? Cons of this year was the rules. (surprise?) Overtakes were mostly done by that catflap, tyres dominated a bit too much and FIA gave penalties for every little contact. (what did Senna do wrong?). And of course, load of Santander-trophyes

Even worse: I'm sure RBR invent the gearbox problem just to let Webber win.

Christian Horner has said that they noticed an oil leak in Vettel's gearbox in lap 5 and there wasn't almost any oil left at the end of the race and he can't believe that Vettel managed to finish.

[Lukeno94]

I believe that there was a gearbox fault, for three reasons:
1: Team orders are now allowed.
2: A guy like Vettel would never have allowed himself to fall so far behind Webber and indeed be caught so rapidly by Button if his car had been working fine
3: It was the last race, and two others had gearbox failures.

[1nsane]

And the 2012 gets immediately more interesting as Kimi will indeed join the F1 squad. Not in Williams, but Lotus (the 2012 one)! That makes more sense imo. Now he might get a car that is at least somehow competitive, if not in the beginning of 2012, then propably in 2013. Especially since the car won't have their tested and failed exhaust system anymore.