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 Discussion about permissions 
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GeneRally Trackmaster

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:04 pm
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Post Discussion about permissions
With many people posting their work on the forum (also back at RSC) and a lot of other people wanting to use that work for something of their own, (wanting to use a track for their compo for example), permissions are always an issue here. It's always a problem asking authors for permissions, and it's not just tedious work and waiting, sometimes it doesn't work out, as many people have left GR for some time or permanently and we have no means for contacting them. We have on several occasions talked about this, but we always somehow abandoned the subject, never doing anything about it. So let me propose a solution.


Let this be a thread, where every author would post a comment about their "permission status", then me or one of the mods would edit the first post and added new data, creating an ever updating list of permissions (and possibly creating a downloadable .txt file containing all the data).

The author should state exactly WHAT can people do with WHICH files. Such post would be for example:

Code:
(from egamad):
I allow for all my files to be freely distributed, modded and/or used in competitions, as long as I'm properly credited.


Then the organised list would look something like that:

Code:
AUTHOR     DISTRIBUTION               MODIFICATIONS             COMPETITIONS               OTHER?
author01            x                         /                       x   
author02            x                         x                       x
author03            /                         /                        /


The DISTRIBUTION column tells us if the author allows sharing of his work via websites, track packs, etc.
The MODIFICATIONS column tells us if the author allows sharing of modified work, like redone tracks, repainted cars, etc.
The COMPETITIONS column tells us if the author allows his work to be used in compos.
*There could possibly be other columns for issues I haven't thought of.

There would also be some general rules that would apply for all authors and their work, and every author would have to explicitly write down what would not apply for his work, if he wanted it that way. For example, a rule for general distribution of files would be that the file can be distributed as it was released. So if there was let's say a readme file included, it should always be included, otherwise the permission is void. So if the author would want to specifically allow his files to be shared without the readme file, he would need to state that explicitly.
We should decide upon these rules and (anything else for that matter) together, this is just a concept.

I know some of you will say that this is useless because a lot of authors have made something in the past and can now not be contacted. That may be the case, but at least we would know the status for current authors, and at some point the present authors could be unreachable, but we would have their permissions here. The list will probably grow slowly, but in the end I believe it is worth the effort.

I reckon it's not too hard to create a sticky somewhere on the main forum board where users would post about their "permission status". Also a notification/announcement could be made to alert authors of this thread. It would also be a good idea to include some text pointing to this thread for when a new member registers, he should post about their permissions before uploading anything on the forum.

That's a very rough concept but with a little bit of effort could be realised in no time. Now it's time for you to have a say in the matter. :)

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:00 am
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GeneRally Trackmaster

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:04 pm
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Post Re: Permissions
There's a little issue when it comes to modifications/competitions - for some people it's ok to have their tracks in competitions in modified form (safepits, checkpoints etc.) but in general don't allow modifications.

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:21 am
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Post MY permissions
· EVERYBODY can use my stadiums (just the venue, not the layouts), always crediting me for the original stadium
· In competitions, safety modifications (better AI lines, harder checkpoints and safepits) can be added to my creations
· NOBODY can modify any part of my tracks to reupload them

Is everything ok?? :hide:

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:17 am
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Permissions
You can distribute my tracks/cars/... everywhere you want, if you keep the readme intact or credit me in you central readme file (e.g. these tracks are by XYY)
You can use my tracks/cars/... for a competition, this also includes editing AI line/Pit line and boxes and checkpoints
You can post edited versions of my tracks/cars/... wherever you want if you sent me the edited track/car/... and I give you permission to share these files with others
Hope everything's right :mrgreen:

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:54 am
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Permissions
That's great, but I really think everybody should wait with their permissions until we decide upon such issues as Tuomo said. We should first consider all (or as many as possible) options and categories of permits. :nod:

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:27 am
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Post Re: Permissions
Everyone can use my tracks for competitions and may modify the pits/add anti-corner cutting/modify the AI as long as the track itself remains intact


Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:15 am
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Permissions
what about your cars?
I'll delete this post after you edited your post, alonsomania....

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Permissions
EDIT: See below.

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Last edited by thegreatfalcon on Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:05 pm
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Post Re: Permissions
I don't have anything to say for myself, because I am unlikely to ever make anything good enough to upload, but I didn't see this anywhere, so here goes: This list should definitely be kept in at least one, and preferably more, place other than this board; after all, the whole point is that it's supposed to be in case it goes down!

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Permissions
We need to estabilish a list like that. We also need to decide possible options, like 'usange in competions, unmodified', and 'usange in competions, with modifications', etc.

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Permissions
XYY wrote:
what about your cars?
I'll delete this post after you edited your post, alonsomania....


Technically the cars aren't mine, so shouldn't they ask the original author?


Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:52 pm
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Permissions
what about the carpack released on this site? http://gr.webz.cz/cars.html :eyes:

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:36 pm
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Post Re: Permissions
The more people who are using it, the better ;)

The cars aren't mine, I didn't create the models. And its not like he was able to ask for permission ;)


Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:39 pm
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:30 pm
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Post Re: Permissions
The Great Falcon wrote:
You may not not distribute unless my permission is granted.


Why? Really, do YOU understand why?
How I tired with this teenager.

@all I really think we should discuss everything before posting about your permissions. One egemad's post, IMO, isn't enough. And you didn't hear clear thought of any mod.

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Permissions
Buka wrote:
@all I really think we should discuss everything before posting about your permissions. One egemad's post, IMO, isn't enough. And you didn't hear clear thought of any mod.


Indeed. I think we should divide this to car and track sections because I won't have any problem with editing my tracks but I'd rather leave my cars untouched. Palettes and sounds etc could also have their own lists. And I don't think that anybody needs to say their tracks or cars could be used with properly credited, using anything without credit is illegal anyway.

What about naming this topic Permissions discussion or something :scratch:


Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:30 pm
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Permissions
Like I said, we really should further develop the idea and then post our permissions. :headbang:

Having separate lists is a good idea IMO. This way permissions could be explained a lot further. So what do you think of TRACKS, CARS and OTHER. I think all the other stuff (like palettes, sounds, icons, wallpapers,...) together is not even close in numbers to tracks or cars, so there really isn't much need to separate them. Or perhaps I am mistaken. :shrug:

I'm really waiting other forumers to join the discussion, because I think it's a fairly important subject. :hattip:

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:03 pm
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GeneRally Wizard

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:20 pm
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Post Re: Permissions
egamad wrote:
Like I said, we really should further develop the idea and then post our permissions. :headbang:

Having separate lists is a good idea IMO. This way permissions could be explained a lot further. So what do you think of TRACKS, CARS and OTHER. I think all the other stuff (like palettes, sounds, icons, wallpapers,...) together is not even close in numbers to tracks or cars, so there really isn't much need to separate them. Or perhaps I am mistaken. :shrug:

I think TRACKS, CARS and OTHER is more than enough.
The problem with an overall permission statement is that is binded to the place where was stated (e.g. this forum)!
If the forum cease to exist than also the permission are lost.
I never understood why people don't include the readme files in the zips. It takes a minute to write and it can solve many problems for a long time :geek:
Another thing that that people could use is the "comment" section when creating their tracks. They could write a word or two there....Some people don't even bother to fill the "author" section when making a track?!

The only way to permanently fix this permission issues is to add a rule, that when you post ANY :gr: work in this forum you MUST state you "legal" stuff about it :2c:

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Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:56 pm
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Discussion about permissions
Has anyone (especially Ivo and DXTR), given any thought to this matter? What do you admins say about LongBow's opinion that there should be a forum-wide rule? I'm afraid that it will keep some users from posting.. :sorry:

I think the best thing right now would be deciding the fate of "the list" and then we'll see where it will go from there. :shrug:

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Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:58 pm
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Discussion about permissions
Everything above-mentioned have my support. I haven't feel nothing to add. ;)

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Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Discussion about permissions
Ok, I thought about some copyrights issues and I came up with that copyrights are crap. So I don't own any rights on my work. It's just polite to say you used my work as base if you to decide to. other wise, modify, publish, no problem...

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Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:26 pm
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Post Re: Discussion about permissions
Why not post the permissions when everything around it is settled in the first post of the tracks posted by the original author. Or at least the basic principles by the author, the in-depth authorisations can be added in a readme for example.

So it's easily to be found and to be read as first as well. Furthermore it's convenient that the original author could add a readme file to the .zip or .rar and add his / her opinion about it in such file. But this is anyway still pretty basic if you're asking me.

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Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:13 am
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Discussion about permissions
OK guys, I've been thinking it through, what do you think of this: Everyone would copy this chart in their posts and write their permissions. Then the permalinks of the posts would be gathered in the first post for quick navigation. The chart would look like this:

----------------------
Competition permissions

CARS: Permissions in form of a YES/NO statement.
TRACKS: Permissions in form of a YES/NO statement.
MODDED CARS: Descriptive permissions, stating what exactly do you allow to be modified, otherwise put NO.
MODDED TRACKS: Descriptive permissions, stating what exactly do you allow to be modified, otherwise put NO.


Sharing/distributing permissions

CARS: Permissions in form of a YES/NO statement.
TRACKS: Permissions in form of a YES/NO statement.
SOUNDS: Permissions in form of a YES/NO statement.
PALETTES: Permissions in form of a YES/NO statement.
OTHER: Permissions in form of a YES/NO statement.

----------------------

Then there are some rules that cover the need of further explaining the individual permissions (we can further work on the rules if necessary):

----------------------
*If author's stance on any subject isn't defined, then it is considered he does NOT ALLOW anything without his written consent.

*Modifying or using any author work for a base to make your own work is FORBIDDEN and considered stealing without the author's written consent.

*Distribution of any author work, that has been released with any sort of a readme file (.txt, .html, .nfo,...) is FORBIDDEN without that readme file intact.

*If there is a readme file released with any author work, the possible permissions in that file override authors general permissions for that work
(e.g. if in general the author doesn't allow modifications, but for that specific work he does allow it and the permission is written in the readme file, then it is ok to modify the file).

*In case of braking any of the above rules the permission is void and you are likely to become subject to a warning or even ban (temporary or permanent).

----------------------

What is your opinion? Would that work? If no one objects then I will start the "official" thread so that we can finally post the permissions. This thread would stay the discussion thread. :?:

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Tue May 04, 2010 5:04 pm
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Post Re: Discussion about permissions
What about posting modded work? Like cars with different physics etc not only in competition use? Otherwise nice.


Tue May 04, 2010 5:12 pm
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Discussion about permissions
Quklis wrote:
What about posting modded work? Like cars with different physics etc not only in competition use? Otherwise nice.


egamad wrote:
*Modifying or using any author work for a base to make your own work is FORBIDDEN and considered stealing without the author's written consent.


With that rule all modifications are forbidden, unless of course the author specifically allows it, which is reality in most cases. No one wants to see their work modded and posted as someone else's property, if they do, they have to explicitly allow it. Or am I mistaken here? Is a "modified" section required? :shrug:

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Tue May 04, 2010 5:38 pm
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GeneRally Trackmaster

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Post Re: Discussion about permissions
*BUMP* :bump: *BUMP*

If nobody has nothing to say about the matter, I'll start the official thread. I just want to be sure all who wanted to speak their mind have done so. If you disagree on any points or have suggestions, share them, so that your opinions will be taken into consideration. I hope I can start the official thread ASAP. ;)

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Thu May 20, 2010 4:10 pm
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