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 [ral] Agrestina 
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:09 pm
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Post [ral] Agrestina
Hi there Generaly community!

I enjoy to presenting you today my latest creation for my BR SERIES and my first release on this new forum:

:cflag: RALLY AGRESTINA :cflag:


Agreste is a brazilian countryside semi-arid region that lays a transition between the "greenie" litoral region by east and the almost desertical Sertão to the west. Agreste is also a unique brazilian bioma, i'd got inspiration for Agrestina rally track on that landscape and a proper name for the track. By origin it have a layout designed to be demanding, very technical as Iceglenn said, hard as Kinichie said, narrow as Balász said, yet awesome as said Otto Wilson aka 007. :bsmile: So at your dispotal, there are the original 100 world size 340m lenght and i add an alterntive 110 WS version making it a little wider for someone that find it to much narrow. also a note on it be suitable not for racing against AI cars, but designed to Time Trials / Hotlaps. Starting on a Lmap almost blank basic arid texture i created using Gimp, all roads and details were 100% hand made, hours dedicated on details and more details, it took mea lot of hours in more than a week to be concluded.

NOTE: There are a new simplified version nearer the protocol now, file named AgrestinaAlt. Pick here, Agrestina v2. TRYING TO MATCH GR rally trackmakers 'defautageries'. So i kill the thrill of the first one style for driving, but still keeping the landscape based onAGRESTE not DESERT! I will repeat, so lets go, one more time... It is NOT a desert!

- WS 120
- wider roads
- simplified
- No more cones
- removed objects
- no more variety of barriers
- some minor LMAP changes

So go on playing, commenting the new version as well. The first one was kept for those that will like original Agrestina. So here is a tryout on a alternative track for you rally trackmakers standards. So i´m trying to be patient. :scratch: Lets understand... i am not against criticism. We need to WANT TO do a good criticism, if someone just don´t want... the criticism will be annoying. Then, if it really are unpersonal criticisms, lets do a fair and clean criteria for commenting ok?


:star: Primeracer :star:


Attachments:
File comment: alternative version file
AgrestinaAlt.zip [100.99 KiB]
Downloaded 85 times
File comment: original and 110 version files
Agrestina.zip [204.76 KiB]
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Agreste_Primeracer.JPG
Agreste_Primeracer.JPG [ 141.35 KiB | Viewed 2989 times ]


Last edited by Primeracer on Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:10 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
:wow: I love your work Primeracer!!!


keep doing a good job :bg:


Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:01 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
THIS IS BRAZILLLLLLLLLLLLL!
Liked the track, oasis-feeling...


Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:16 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
nice effort but it is not flawless

- way too many objects, it really feels crowded and on real photos at the screenshot it looks more like desert
- road cones are useless at this type of landscape and track
- too narrow to be funny, it´s rather annoying
- fence around house in bottom-left look bad
- dithering could be more interesting

but it is not that bad as it may sound ;). I said, nice effort :bg:.

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Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:21 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
[quote="Dan Hakulín"]nice effort but it is not flawless

For sure not flawless! Like ANY other rally track i have analized, raced many times including yours... I will start to reply...

- way too many objects, it really feels crowded and on real photos at the screenshot it looks more like desert. Didn´t you read about the track? It´s not a desert, it´s AGRESTE bioma, in semi arid landscapes you can also find even TREES IN CLUSTERS, deciduous for a example, vegetation very variable on a semi-arid climate like Agreste, you have drier places and NOT so dry places! Photos served to show some vegetation types (mandacaru aren´t on GR objects), and puddles in semi arid terrain. If you check it up with a little more will, you can see similarities on the track within all the images!

- road cones are useless at this type of landscape and track. What a... welll, all the cones i put on this track has a motif for being there!! A certain interpretation! They where placen while another trackmaker would put stones or some other natural type object. i do something out of 'standardisms', in just your opinion these cones are useless, but in places they are actualty placen on this track DO NOT. If it was a long real rally stage, but it´s a little section of dirt roads, i being mor crowded doens´t says that it´s a failure itself. :shake3:

- too narrow to be funny, it´s rather annoying. Again... again... :shake3: well... lets go slowly... :scratch: You were free to try 110 WS version, or even editing yourself a 120 WS, it will make the road wider and say if would be funnier to you... i do not trust but... actually this layout remains quite driveable, you have no room for erros, room for only one car, but suficient to maneuver even clear and indeed fast laps i have the idea for this track to be narrow, it makes the thing SPECIAL, gives variety for players, gives new interest, put it out of an ordinary quality, definetly not a 'industrial line of production' track! So sorry... sorry.... it wasn´t a copy of your tracks man you are cosntantly making and racing on then. Now.... how can you have a any fun being so unwillingly about the track like that? Quite narrow this thing to myself. :shrug:

- fence around house in bottom-left look bad. May be... however it was placen coherently there, wooden fence matching the road, demarking an area... have an given interpretation on it... it wasn't eye candy only! Again the same misleading haq... Agrestina was a Daniel de Carvalho creation. :|

- dithering could be more interesting. What hard thing... :shake3: Would be more interesting if it looked equal to yours? or TGF? Egamad dithering artwork? At least it is a stupid way of thinking sure? You must start to watch more on your own dithering also man... use to go and open the LMAP of Agrestina on any image editor, perhaps you don´t still miserably seeing anything intreresting on my dithering work directly giving a good will look at it´s LMAP.

To finishing... for you it was just like a 'nice tryout'. But to achieving what? I must say... like you said about my work, you analysis was... :shrug: indeed... F L A W L E S S

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:59 am
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
Whow :D why such a hard words? I admit I could use word track instead of effort that maybe sounds a bit bad.
About dithering, you could use for example mud to create some "skidmarks" and things like that.

I was just trying to express some ideas that could make track better by my opinion, now I know that you take it too personally...

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:47 am
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
The track isn't too narrow (in WS110), but there's too much types of objects (e.g. armco, fence, concrete wall, soft wall and hay bale all in one small track? I think just 3 types would be enough), so it looks bit messy. ;)

:star: :star: :star: :star: :exstar:

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:39 am
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
Primeracer, please don't ask for comments if you get so agitated by criticism. By asking comments you should be able to take also the negative, not just the positive.

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:35 am
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
Agrestina made me remember Sim Golf with fondness. 5 or 6years ago, I was absorbed in the game. Anyway, your track has nice view (scenery). I like it.. ;)


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Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:26 am
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
I (partly) agree with what Dan said on points 3 and 4.

The first feeling I got when racing it was the same one that I have with Onder's tracks - too slow for me to be fun. But it really depends on your driving skill and the type of vehicle you take. So in my case, I wouldn't go for anything bigger than a Mini. :P After 4 or 5 laps I got the hang of it and then it was more a challenge than an annoyance.

Second, I personally like the way the track is filled with objects. It gives it a very unrealistic and arcade-ish touch, which I find to be a good thing. But I think that if you decided to make a very object-crowded track, you should have made the bottom left area about equally stuffed and more interesting than it is now. You said in your reply to Dan that the fence has more practical value compared to the aesthetic one. The true mastery in trackmaking is to join the functionality with the facade, so it looks good and still serves it's purpose the way it's meant to. :wiz:


I liked the track, but like TuomoH said, you should expect both positive and negative comments, especially with a non-standard track like yours.

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Last edited by egamad on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:35 am
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
TuomoH wrote:
Primeracer, please don't ask for comments if you get so agitated by criticism. By asking comments you should be able to take also the negative, not just the positive.


The point is not the comments, but WHY. Positive? W h e r e ? It´s not a track of yourself TUOMO.

Merged double reply from Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:32 am:

Dan Hakulín wrote:
Whow :D why such a hard words? I admit I could use word track instead of effort that maybe sounds a bit bad.
About dithering, you could use for example mud to create some "skidmarks" and things like that.

I was just trying to express some ideas that could make track better by my opinion, now I know that you take it too personally...


Ok... so be it, i will try something for this track yet, i back when i finish... about dithering i choose to don´t using mud here, the dithering seemed not so interesting for you why i´d used terrain with similar color to sand there are a few choices... dithering quality aren´t so visible ingame, 'vide' LMAP.

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:20 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
Ms... wrote:
Agrestina made me remember Sim Golf with fondness. 5 or 6years ago, I was absorbed in the game. Anyway, your track has nice view (scenery). I like it.. ;)


:rainbow: a coloured smile... hehe, it seemed a mini golf? why? seems to have holes? I find that mini golf image too colorful!

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:38 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
I also agree with day that it is too narrow, even on the 110 version. What car do you reccomend for it Primeracer?

It still looks great though

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:28 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
Primeracer wrote:
The point is not the comments, but WHY. Positive? W h e r e ? It´s not a track of yourself TUOMO.

Not 100% what you mean but to my eyes Dan did also explain why, at least between the lines. Also in his comment there is something positive, and actually most of the comments you've gotten is positive. It doesn't matter whose track it is, everyone who asks for comments should be able to take the criticism. No need to get angry.

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:08 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
egamad wrote:
I (partly) agree with what Dan said on points 3 and 4.

The first feeling I got when racing it was the same one that I have with Onder's tracks - too slow for me to be fun. But it really depends on your driving skill and the type of vehicle you take. So in my case, I wouldn't go for anything bigger than a Mini. well i like haq´s works actually, i :P After 4 or 5 laps I got the hang of it and then it was more a challenge than an annoyance. Did you also felt annoyed? At least you could do more laps and check it would be nicer to drive, if you continue, you will LIKE to drive i sure

Second, I personally like the way the track is filled with objects. It gives it a very unrealistic and arcade-ish touch, which I find to be a good thing. ok... ok, very clever sir taking the thing to arcade like, ok a little, a little. But I think that if you decided to make a very object-crowded track, you should have made the bottom left area about equally stuffed and more interesting than it is now. simple fact the track weren´t projected for being a 'arcadish' 'very or less object crowded, it goes just like it would to that way, the track was planned to be an agreste landscape. Some objects like cones were propositally placen like a event staff worked to make a special attaction with the track... but for having trees and buches, cactus siding the road it´s unrealistic! If becomes too crowded wasn´t a choice. Well at least the folks ingame are liking! there are more than 100 expectators and track personal there hehe. At bottom it has less trees, less bushs, but you can see some nice lmap things there. You said in your reply to Dan that the fence has more practical value compared to the aesthetic one. Then you just aggre that wooden fence there was also ugly? it doens´t looked so to me, ... The true mastery in trackmaking is to join the functionality with the facade, so it looks good and still serves it's purpose the way it's meant to. :wiz: Ok, in part... i can say you´re right Egamad... i would recognize about it being not so realistic, but if you see, most of the tracks made by rally trackmakers on your standars got no realistic also... i think you aren´t looking appropriately at your works. The most realistic approuch i can see for a rally track was the ADAC Rally by BBA. i´ve tryied to be realistic creating a track for AGRESTE bioma.


I liked the track, but like Martyn said, you should expect both positive and negative comments, especially with a non-standard track like yours.
Traducing... as it is a non-standard track it would recieve negative criticism, when another an 'industrialized' rally track will at the first glance by the narrow public opinion will be accepted just because of 'standardisms'. tsc tsc tsc :shake3:

It was a strange.. vary strange thing to myself you find this track so bad... but, let me see what to do.

Merged double reply from Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:48 pm:

Martyn wrote:
I also agree with day that it is too narrow, even on the 110 version. What car do you reccomend for it Primeracer?

It still looks great though


Lets go. i recommend: i raced General, Mini, even Yankee, Formula and Mcturbo cars i was capable of driving here. But for sure it was good for Jarec´s rally cars and Otto Wilson´s rally i´ve tested cars they are best suitted for the track.

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:42 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
egamad wrote:
I liked the track

Dan Hakulín wrote:
nice effort :bg:.

Do you have some kinda filter to see only the criticisms? :mrgreen: As others said, if you're going to make tracks you shouldn't take the criticism so personally.

I agree about the track being a bit "crowded", and it seems too narrow to me too, but I didn't drive it yet. Other than that everything seems good.

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:53 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
Primeracer - No one has said they think it's a bad track - i think everyone likes it and are just giving you little hints to work on for future tracks

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:54 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
AleksiNir wrote:
egamad wrote:
I liked the track

Dan Hakulín wrote:
nice effort :bg:.

Do you have some kinda filter to see only the criticisms? :mrgreen: As others said, if you're going to make tracks you shouldn't take the criticism so personally.

I agree about the track being a bit "crowded", and it seems too narrow to me too, but I didn't drive it yet. Other than that everything seems good.


LOL, very funny Aleksi! It says nothing!

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:52 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
Okay, if you take such an aggressive stance, I think it's better that I don't comment at all

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:01 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
AleksiNir wrote:
Okay, if you take such an aggressive stance, I think it's better that I don't comment at all


Did you come bringing this gossip of 'accepting criticism' 'taking to personal', thats not the point, it serves only to deviate the focus i´m poiting here! If you though to go and just speak by the same way of thinking, i will need to reply appropriately. It´s clear, you wil not to comment here jsut because you will bring the same type of approach then some others used to have here. You can comment, critisize, but not like the others bring me something better then this!

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:20 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
Primeracer wrote:
Did you come bringing this gossip of 'accepting criticism' 'taking to personal', thats not the point, it serves only to deviate the focus i´m poiting here! If you though to go and just speak by the same way of thinking, i will need to reply appropriately. It´s clear, you wil not to comment here jsut because you will bring the same type of approach then some others used to have here. You can comment, critisize, but not like the others bring me something better then this!

Come on, if many people think in a certain way about your track, maybe they really do have a point then... Now you're basically insulting people by claiming that their comments aren't right, when they are their real opinions. :shake:

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:26 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
TuomoH wrote:
Primeracer wrote:
Did you come bringing this gossip of 'accepting criticism' 'taking to personal', thats not the point, it serves only to deviate the focus i´m poiting here! If you though to go and just speak by the same way of thinking, i will need to reply appropriately. It´s clear, you wil not to comment here jsut because you will bring the same type of approach then some others used to have here. You can comment, critisize, but not like the others bring me something better then this!

Come on, if many people think in a certain way about your track, maybe they really do have a point then... Now you're basically insulting people by claiming that their comments aren't right, when they are their real opinions. :shake:


Sorry if i am not pleased with your intentions about some creation like mine, but cannot see any initiative by GR community 'maiorals' like you... on turning the things more fair for everyone, I still seeing some others and mine works being CARELESSLY evaluated, in fact that i see other works being dreamlike rated! It is that causes my stance your are just complaining about, is just because of your damn defaultages. I am tired of standardisms. I am not merely insulting, you aren´t being insulted, you refuses to understand, it´s needed the people wanna to understand... you seems to do not. Start on wanting to really thinking about what i´m speaking off and at last understand. You defend opinions, the problem remains on the basis for the opinions! Your defaults were even an error. You now may just say.. 'What defaults?? We need clean and fair criticism, not poluted by standards. Your standards that makes your comments it is clear all the time, all single track posted here. Your mind are done, close, passive, there are not an alive thinking. It complicates all. :shrug:

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:48 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
Primeracer wrote:
Sorry if i am not pleased with your intentions about some creation like mine, but cannot see any initiative by GR community 'maiorals' like you... on turning the things more fair for everyone, I still seeing some others and mine works being CARELESSLY evaluated, in fact that i see other works being dreamlike rated! It is that causes my stance your are just complaining about, is just because of your damn defaultages. I am tired of standardisms. I am not merely insulting, you aren´t being insulted, you refuses to understand, it´s needed the people wanna to understand... you seems to do not. Start on wanting to really thinking about what i´m speaking off and at last understand. You defend opinions, the problem remains on the basis for the opinions! Your defaults were even an error. You now may just say.. 'What defaults?? We need clean and fair criticism, not poluted by standards. Your standards that makes your comments it is clear all the time, all single track posted here. Your mind are done, close, passive, there are not an alive thinking. It complicates all. :shrug:

How do you know people are carelessly evaluating your track? Just because they don't share your opinion? Are you really saying that people's opinions are wrong? Man, they're just opinions, nothing more. Of course people compare new tracks to old ones. That's how humans' minds work. But the thing is that there are often standards because the standard way of doing things has proved to work very well.

By the way, it's funny that you think that I'm favoring standardisms - just take a look at Estio and say if it's a standard track; it's got weird object placement, and it's too damn narrow for many people for instance, totally different than 99% of tracks released here. That, if nothing else, should tell that I'm also tired of standardisms. As another example, take a look at Masa's creations. They are often very weird but people still love them.

You say I'm not understanding? To me it seems that the feeling is mutual. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't get angry when people tell their opinions. That's all.

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:09 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
The way I see it, there are only 2 logical explanations possible:

A - you have people issues.
B - troll detected.

Seriously. You keep going on about standards and stuff I can't really understand, but the thing is, you just can't take criticism, even in minor doses. Now you need to ask yourself a quesition: do you really want people to stop commenting on your work just because you can't take it rather than let them say their true opinion?

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Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:19 pm
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Post Re: [ral] Agrestina
TuomoH wrote:
Primeracer wrote:
Sorry if i am not pleased with your intentions about some creation like mine, but cannot see any initiative by GR community 'maiorals' like you... on turning the things more fair for everyone, I still seeing some others and mine works being CARELESSLY evaluated, in fact that i see other works being dreamlike rated! It is that causes my stance your are just complaining about, is just because of your damn defaultages. I am tired of standardisms. I am not merely insulting, you aren´t being insulted, you refuses to understand, it´s needed the people wanna to understand... you seems to do not. Start on wanting to really thinking about what i´m speaking off and at last understand. You defend opinions, the problem remains on the basis for the opinions! Your defaults were even an error. You now may just say.. 'What defaults?? We need clean and fair criticism, not poluted by standards. Your standards that makes your comments it is clear all the time, all single track posted here. Your mind are done, close, passive, there are not an alive thinking. It complicates all. :shrug:

How do you know people are carelessly evaluating your track? If it were well evaluated, for sure the comments will be different! Just because they don't share your opinion? NOT it´s why i have a way for making my tracks and yourselves have your mind done, anyone needs to see all the same way of myself to evaluate this a more fair way. Are you really saying that people's opinions are wrong? Man, they're just opinions, nothing more. No. it's not just clean opinions, the fact is opinions are not all, for you to evaluate a track, i could not accept critics by haq and i explained why, but anyone do considered what i explained, just stopped on complain about i get disappointed. Your opiniosn arent´the same, ok... but if youurselves were more 'open' i sure your eyes would start to see things different. So opinions are not all it would to be changeable, with no need of me to say such things, the only way for this track for a example going to recieve a better consideration is by giving it a little more attention. Of course people compare new tracks to old ones. That's how humans' minds work. But the thing is that there are often standards because the standard way of doing things has proved to work very well.But NEVER to centralize the entire thing like aways everytime happens just because it appear to be working for you! GR Community are not yours, i do repeat start on want to understand. What you for an example seems to not being capable of see, is that this track here matches a good level like as your 'defautages' but not get a good evaluation like the others... definitely it is not an good thing. :shrug:

By the way, it's funny that you think that I'm favoring standardisms. You indeed are one of the leaders of this behavior on this community. But having such reputation, being so important makes to expected better things from you even on your opinions. - just take a look at Estio and say if it's a standard track; it's got weird object placement, and it's too damn narrow for many people for instance, totally different than 99% of tracks released hereSo what comments did you got? This track here are not also like Estio. It´s not an TuomoH track... Another point here... I do have my ways for trackamking, the ways i got, but i everytime ADMIRATED your workseven i being human and having opinions. That, if nothing else, should tell that I'm also tired of standardisms. Arguing for speaking that there are no "standardices' again.. is useless. You said, it prove to work, but why? As another example, take a look at Masa's creations. They are often very weird but people still love them. Ha, do you think i´m not analizin it too? It makes the thing more sinister! So just right now do you testify me many track evaluations are unfair! When saying MS works are loved, even considered weird. Much more weird is this strange... much strange fenomena. :doh:

You say I'm not understanding? To me it seems that the feeling is mutual. What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't get angry when people tell their opinions. That's all.


At last... concluding, a man that was controlled by folks opinions is a cursed man, opinions can go where them want to go.

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Try other tracks by myself: Agrestina -Tristar - Petra


Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:44 pm
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