Track tags reform

[thegreatfalcon]

Hi
I think that we shall consider reviewing some tags which I find quite very confusing...

I propose to use it a bit like a programming function which requires parameters and where some are optional like this:
[type of surface] [lapping system] [attributes (optional)]

Type of surface. Here, from grippier to dirtier: (5 letters tag)
[dirt0] Professional Circuit (F1, WTCC, etc...) Perfect clean!
[dirt1] Kart Circuits: Some particles of dirt...
[dirt2] Street Circuits: Some more dirt
[dirt3] Road course which is mainly tarmac but contains some dirt
[dirt4] Ancien tarmac: Old looking and feeling tarmac.
[dirt5] Semi Road: Half Road, Half Dirt
[dirt6] Off Road: Total dirt
Just keep in mind that 0 is perfection clean circuit and that 6 is the most non-tarmac and you can put easily a grade to your track according to this. The examples over there are just for comparison...

The lapping system would be how to do a lap: (2 letters tag)
[lp] Loop: Car's going from point A to point A
[st] Stage: Rally stages; Point A to Point B
[ls] Loop Stage: Car go on a road then go no the same road but in the opposite direction; Point A to Point B to Point A
[ot] Other Lapping System: Anything that's not above

Finally, the attributes. Defines some properties of the tracks or the set of track: (3 letters tag)
[whm] Stand for: Wild HMAP (For tracks where the HMAP may really disturb the driving)
[rwl] real world location (don't use the tag for: proposals of track, kart tracks, RC tracks and fictional tracks inspired by local roads)
[gmi] Google map inspired: Track based for a Satellite shot of some non-track area and it may not be a [rwl]
[tpk] track pack (more different tracks are inside of attached .zip)
[evo] evolution pack (includes same track in more versions as it changed during different time periods)
-none- Just no tags if any above don't fit

Some examples:
ADx_Wales's Oba Farm : [dirt4] [lp] [tpk]
The Great Falcon's DriftSchool : [dirt3] [lp]
Dan Hakulin's Ededee : [dirt6] [lp] [whm]
Long Bow's Roulette : [dirt5] [lp]
Maciej1's Bahrain International Circuit : [dirt0] [lp] [rwl] [tpk]
AleksiNir's Därin : [dirt0] [lp]
Maciej1's Valencia Street Circuit : [dirt2] [lp] [rwl]


For clear, the track "type" would be replaced by the amount of dirt on it... So, guys, what do you think about it?

[Bouncebackability]

...enough said really

there is never a need for so many variations, especially the dirt ones , the only problem with it atm is the difference between a RAL a RAX.

imho a ral is point to point, a rax is a circuit style, wether it be all mud, all gravel, or mud/tarmac mix, thats how my folder works on my pc anyways...

edit: your system is also very rally based, which i understand, thats you forté in GR, but its just seriously overcomplicated for general use

[Darjo]

Seriously, do you think these tags are less confusing?
Sorry but I think this is a really bad idea.

[thegreatfalcon]

Seriously, do you think these tags are less confusing?
Sorry but I think this is a really bad idea.

Hehehe... Never said it wasn't confusing And in any ways, this was just a proposal...

@BBA: yeah maybe it's too rally based... I don't stop you from making your own system proposal I also agree that the main concern is about the [ral]/[rax] tags... Let me propose something else:
[ral] For stage rallies and LoopStages (Either it's full tarmac or full dirt)
[rax] Rally-Cross like track; Off road tracks which are looping

Any circuit containing even only few dirt on tarmac would be tagged as [kar] or [roa]. This way, most of Weistheim's work for example would be [roa] and not [rax]. Other example: GRF's and Haq's FSR which are looping would be [rax].

I don't think it changes much to the actual tag what I said up there but what it does is making them clearer at my eyes because I still find the tags description quite blurry...

[GeneSuomi]

i think that one tag is enough. And those dirt tags... Huh! I think that Google tag is only one which could work...

[1nsane]

Hahah, well that waay too complicated system you gave. And the fact that the dirtiness thingie was up to the creator of the track to choose, it might be far away from the right one.

And it doesn't really serve well for the people who don't know the tagging system. The current tags will give atleast some sort of idea for the newcomer even without taking a look at the upload book.

But... What I would do with the current tags is this:
Combine [rax] and [ral]. For example as [off], [dirt] or something. The reason is that there aren't too many of tracks coming on both of the areas, so putting them in one would be good. The people wanting to download these non-tarmac tracks would read the thread anyways to see if it is a single lap rally thing or a rallycross. Many of the loop rallys don't differ too much of the rallycross stages anyways.

And the other one (a shocker for most of the people here propably) is to combine [cir] and [roa]. This is because people don't seem to use these two properly. Let's take a look at the tracks on the mainpage. Szczebrzeszyn should be [roa], Haase Circuit should be [roa], Benett Gardens is pretty close to being a [roa] too. I'm sure there would be even more examples just by going to the next page. So.. Combine these somehow, most likely by just removing [roa].

[AleksiNir]

But... What I would do with the current tags is this:
Combine [rax] and [ral]. For example as [off], [dirt] or something. The reason is that there aren't too many of tracks coming on both of the areas, so putting them in one would be good. The people wanting to download these non-tarmac tracks would read the thread anyways to see if it is a single lap rally thing or a rallycross. Many of the loop rallys don't differ too much of the rallycross stages anyways.

I definately agree, [rax] and [ral] are a bit confusing. Because in real life, rallycross is racing on loop circuits, which are partly tarmac surfaced and partly dirt. So, for me [rax] is only for the tracks with tarmac and dirt surfaces, and [ral] for the stage rallyes and the loop tracks with dirt only [dir] would be good tag for this IMO (we don't want to break the "3-letter-rule", do we?)

And the other one (a shocker for most of the people here propably) is to combine [cir] and [roa]. This is because people don't seem to use these two properly. Let's take a look at the tracks on the mainpage. Szczebrzeszyn should be [roa], Haase Circuit should be [roa], Benett Gardens is pretty close to being a [roa] too. I'm sure there would be even more examples just by going to the next page. So.. Combine these somehow, most likely by just removing [roa].

With this I disagree. Originally [roa] was added, because tracks, which really were [roa] (as it is, on public roads), for example Nahopo by Tizio, or De Lucia by Mikey B, were given the [stc] tag. In my opinion [roa] is a necessary tag, because the tracks which are [roa] are still different from [cir], for example, you can't have runoffs or (many) stands in [roa]. You're right, that some people don't use tags perfectly. Maybe they just don't realize, that using more tags than only one is allowed too, and useful. Because IMO Haase Circuit is not [roa], it's not [cir] either. , let's give it both of them!

[Trigger Happy]

I agree with all above me, this TGF's tags have very low value, because you need table to find what's that in case of every new track, easier to check picture. Present tags are clear even for newbie here, what he will find in the topic after opening it. And it's based on ''rally levels'' or how to call it, even if it's not most popular kind of tracks.

About dirty tracks, we have 3 or 4 types basically:
1. stages (not always dirty as rallies are basically held on tarmac mixed with little bit of other surface)
2. tarmac/dirt circuits (rallycross)
3. dirty circuits
4. open landscape with indication of layout by objects like bushes, lights and stones

IMHO [ral]/[rax] tags can be confusing, so if any change, I would propose:
[stg] for all rally stages
[drt] for all dirty circuits with visible path no matter if it's partially asphalted too or not
[ofr] or [ofd] from word off-road for open landscapes without any lmap path

[Lukeno94]

Ivo's suggestions make sense to me, whereas I agree that TGF's are far too overcomplicated and meaningless.

[Mad Dan]

we definately need change ral and rax situation is a bit confusing for me

I´d say that I agree with Ivo´s idea but just to use [off] not [ofd]

[Trigger Happy]

More opinions?

[thegreatfalcon]

I´d say that I agree with Ivo´s idea but just to use [off] not [ofd]

+1 for this then

[AleksiNir]

I like 1nsane's very simple solution, but because there are so many other tags, it would be incorrect to discriminate against rallyes by giving them only one

So I like Ivo's solution more. For the off-road tag [ofr] seems best to me

[Quklis]

There are completely pointless tags like [wat] and [tri]. More tags are just confusing. I like that rally (loop)stages and sinuous rallies would have different tags but off-road tracks could be [oth], though [ofr] or in the same tag as other rallies. Also, is [kar] so important? They are usually very similar to [cir]..

My suggestion for tags;
[cir] circuit
[stc] street circuit (in city)
[roa] road track (on public roads)
[ovl] oval track
[stu] stunt track
[ral] rally stage
[drt] off-road track
[mic] micro track
[oth] other (if any other previous doesn't fit)

[Trigger Happy]

kart tag can be useful, especially when they are not considered to be under rwl tracks. I agree with tri and wat to be not very useful.

Maybe ral and drt can be confused.

[Mad Dan]

system suggested by Quklis seems to be quite ok

[Buka]

Hm, why not to left [ral] for rally stages and left [rax] for other offroad tracks? And IMO [wat], [kar] and [tri] can still be useful.

[bhz]

What is the difference between [stc] and [roa] anyway?

[Trigger Happy]

stc = street circuit in city (Monaco) roa = public roads out of city with occasional passing through village or around homesteads (Isle of Man, Targa Florio etc).

[PacmanOwnage]

There are completely pointless tags like [wat] and [tri]. More tags are just confusing. I like that rally (loop)stages and sinuous rallies would have different tags but off-road tracks could be [oth], though [ofr] or in the same tag as other rallies. Also, is [kar] so important? They are usually very similar to [cir]..

My suggestion for tags;
[cir] circuit
[stc] street circuit (in city)
[roa] road track (on public roads)
[ovl] oval track
[stu] stunt track
[ral] rally stage
[drt] off-road track <- just change that to [off] or something that actually has off-road suited to it
[mic] micro track
[oth] other (if any other previous doesn't fit)

but overall i think this is possibly the best solution

[XYY]

There are completely pointless tags like [wat] and [tri]. More tags are just confusing. I like that rally (loop)stages and sinuous rallies would have different tags but off-road tracks could be [oth], though [ofr] or in the same tag as other rallies. Also, is [kar] so important? They are usually very similar to [cir]..

My suggestion for tags;
[cir] circuit
[stc] street circuit (in city)
[roa] road track (on public roads)
[ovl] oval track
[stu] stunt track
[ral] rally stage
[drt] off-road track <- just change that to [off] or something that actually has off-road suited to it
[mic] micro track
[oth] other (if any other previous doesn't fit)

but overall i think this is possibly the best solution

I also like this one but what about rlw tracks?
are they splitted to cir, stc and maybe roa ??

[Quklis]

There are completely pointless tags like [wat] and [tri]. More tags are just confusing. I like that rally (loop)stages and sinuous rallies would have different tags but off-road tracks could be [oth], though [ofr] or in the same tag as other rallies. Also, is [kar] so important? They are usually very similar to [cir]..

My suggestion for tags;
[cir] circuit
[stc] street circuit (in city)
[roa] road track (on public roads)
[ovl] oval track
[stu] stunt track
[ral] rally stage
[drt] off-road track <- just change that to [off] or something that actually has off-road suited to it
[mic] micro track
[oth] other (if any other previous doesn't fit)

but overall i think this is possibly the best solution

I also like this one but what about rlw tracks?
are they splitted to cir, stc and maybe roa ??

Of course [rwl] and [tpk] would still be there.. No sense in dropping them. They're just kinda add-on tags.

[TuomoH]

My suggestion for tags;
[cir] circuit
[stc] street circuit (in city)
[roa] road track (on public roads)
[ovl] oval track
[stu] stunt track
[ral] rally stage
[drt] off-road track
[mic] micro track
[oth] other (if any other previous doesn't fit)

I like this but what would sinuous rally tracks be according to this? I think [ral] should be reserved for them, and for stages have something like [stg], maybe use it as an extra tag as is the case with [tpk] for instance - there aren't that many rally stages around anyway.

[XYY]

there aren't that many rally stages around anyway.

I'm atm building one

[Mad Dan]

this week I´ll relase one rallye but if we decide that [ral] = stage we don´t need [stg] tag, do we?