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 [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps 
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Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 1:32 pm
Posts: 6
Post [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Hy guys, i'm new and i've never been on a generally forum before. I've been playing this fantastic game since 9/10 years but i've never searched an online community. I downloaded tracks and cars but i didn't know there is an active community. I'm so glad of that, finally :D :D
I always wonder why the aesthetics of my tracks is always lower than the tracks i found on web. I noticed that there are a lot of tools you use but i think the biggest problem is that i am very poor in using Hmap weight and height, or maybe the problems are others. I would be very happy if someone could help me explaining how can i improve the aestethic of the following circuit and or in general if anyone could give me any help to became better in editing tracks.
Anyway, i show one of my track: Idyrt.
I'll attach a screen of the track and i'll came it downloadble for the braves who would like to try it :D :D :D

P.s. Excuse me for bad english, i'm italian.


Attachments:
Senza-titolo-1.png
Senza-titolo-1.png [ 123.2 KiB | Viewed 255 times ]
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Idyirt.rar [7.6 KiB]
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Thu May 21, 2020 1:59 pm
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:57 pm
Posts: 1577
Location: Czech Republic
Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Hello Danador12 and welcome to the community :wave:

A lot good trackmakers use external Hmap editor. (I haven't used it tho, so I can't help you with Hmap, but I'm pretty sure someone else can. :bg: )
But I can help you with Lmap. You can export your Lmap as a 512x512pixels .bmp picture file and you can edit it in MS Paint or any other program. And to help your Lmap look better, you can make much better looking and precise kerbing or make the tarmac look already used by using second tarmac color in the corners, where the track would be rubbered.

Your track (I guess you did it just by using track editor) is pretty decent looking already. :shy: I'm pretty sure you will improve your track making skills by using external programs and I can't wait for your next track release ! :haha:

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(last edit: 23/04/2020)


Thu May 21, 2020 3:40 pm
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Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 1:32 pm
Posts: 6
Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Hi FRUKI! Thanks for the welcome :mrgreen:
I predicted that the good trackmakers use external tools to perfectionate their product but
I'm a little bit confused, what's the difference between HMap and LMap? In what LMap consists exactly? About precise kerbing I have a doubt: Is just a work of patience to make the lines better or are there any tools to make the kerb adjacent to the tamac? Thank you for the advice about rubbered tamac! Can i have a good results just with classical track editor? That's because yes, I only use the classical track editor. Thank you for appreciation, even if the track isn't really stylistically perfect :meditate:
And obviously yes, i'll upload many of tracks in a time, i have ten years of lost community to recuperate :D :D :D :D

Merged double reply from Thu May 21, 2020 4:11 pm:

If anyone can advise external tools to perfectionate traks i'm very happy to know which, thanks


Thu May 21, 2020 4:09 pm
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:57 pm
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Location: Czech Republic
Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Danador12 wrote:
About precise kerbing I have a doubt: Is just a work of patience to make the lines better or are there any tools to make the kerb adjacent to the tamac? ... If anyone can advise external tools to perfectionate traks i'm very happy to know which, thanks
Yes, it is a lot of work, if you do it pixel by pixel, just like I did it with this track :D I can recommend you using snakeditor. (Once again, I used this program just to make perfect rounded walls/guardrails, so I can't really help you how to use this program.) But I'm pretty sure there is an option to make the kerbing perfect and do it "without any work".

Danador12 wrote:
I'm a little bit confused, what's the difference between HMap and LMap? In what LMap consists exactly?
Hmap is the height difference (water, mountains, hills, jumps, banked turns, etc.) and Lmap is what sort of terrain you drive on (tarmac, sand, grass, mud, white/red/yellow line [kerbing]) I hope you can understand it :mrgreen:

Danador12 wrote:
Can i have a good results just with classical track editor? That's because yes, I only use the classical track editor. Thank you for appreciation, even if the track isn't really stylistically perfect :meditate:
I'm pretty sure you can. :bg: I have seen a lot of only track editor tracks on this forum. :goodvibes:

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(last edit: 23/04/2020)


Thu May 21, 2020 4:42 pm
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Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 1:32 pm
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Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Yes FRUKI, Thanks you a LOT :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

In the next day i'll try all those advices, thank you again man! :up: :up:


Thu May 21, 2020 4:47 pm
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:02 am
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Location: France
Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Hello Danador12 ! :)

Like FRUKIScze said, it's a really decent track already, plus the fact it's only made with the Track Editor is quite something. :bg:

Personally I love to use Gimp for my tracks ; it allows lot of things if you know how to use it correctly. Using paths to make the layout and kerbs, put some textures for interesting effects, layers too if you want to keep intact what you've done so far and draw from behind, etc. It's better than Paint, maybe a little more complex, but very rewarding once you had the habit to use it.

For Hmap I use GRHMEdit : viewtopic.php?f=8&t=733.

It allows you to make very precise work on Hmap and to actually see what you're doing (In Track Editor, it's only when you play it than you see what you have done).

SnakeEditor is useful if you want smooth walls in a corner for example, but I always found it difficult to create a layout with it.

Sure, creating a track is not an easy task nor a short one, but it's rewarding. Plus, the skills you'll gain here may be useful later if you have to use some software like Gimp for example.

Feel free to ask anything, there's always someone who will answer to you even if this forum is pretty dead nowadays. We also appreciate to have some humble trackmakers like you coming, it's easier for us to help you, and your progresses will be faster. ;)

Keep going ! :bg:

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Sun May 24, 2020 7:46 am
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GeneRally Trackmaster

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:04 pm
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Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Welcome Danador12! :wave:

Yes, it is possible to do very nice things in Track Editor (TE) only - that's what I've been using for my last two releases such as TEOring. The thing is that it takes lots and lots of trial and error and clicking "undo land" and "undo height". :meditate: The problem with that is that you can only have one undo for each so when you start making a new feature to your track, be sure to save a copy of the track.

Lots of people do pixel by pixel editing in MS Paint but like Kikwik, I'm a Gimp fan. It's indeed more complex than Paint but it's much easier for textures, fills etc. I also use Gimp for more precise hmap work such as sharp edges and gradients since those are impossible to do in TE. It's basically just playing around with shades of gray in a 64x64 pixel picture. But again, you can do lots of nice things in TE too but it takes lots of practice - I don't know how many thousands of hours I've spent in that program in my life. :D Just a word of advice if you decide to use Gimp - first export the land from TE so you get the right palette. TE is a bit picky with the image format.

You asked about placing the kerbs. For my part, I've done a great deal of them in TE (draw - undo - draw - undo, you know the drill). However, for many of my tracks I've retouched the kerbs in Gimp afterwards. I find it easier to do the pixel by pixel work on top of an existing base. My trick with the kerbs has been that where TE draws a pattern of white-red-white, I divide those in two so it becomes neater white-red-white-red-white-red.

Other than that, as the others have pointed out, Snakeditor is a pretty nice tool even though I share Kikwik's feeling about it not being that good for getting the layouts I want. I also second GRHMEdit being a nice tool for hmap editing. :)

As for the track, it's a nice first effort. Just keep practicing and you will get even nicer tracks. :)

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Mon May 25, 2020 3:53 am
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:54 pm
Posts: 774
Location: Poland
Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Maybe I'll add some :2c:. I use Windows XP Paint (but on Win 10 - you can easily download it). For making hmap and placing objects I reccomend GRHMap and to make walls (if I cant make it smooth in GRHMap) Snakeditor. If you (and maybe other members, too) would like to see some tutorial/how to, I would think about it.. :scratch:

I was lucky to grow up between many incredible trackmakers they aren't active anymore (like my countryman Areen, his account even doesn't exist anymore, on Polish GR site (which also doesn't exist!) we had marvellous tutorial from him). However, through the years I learned some things, so why not to leave some heritage? :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

Also you can download my tracks and if it would help you, you can export lmap and see how it's made. If you'd want, feel free to do it :)

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Upcoming track progress: ~60%
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Mon May 25, 2020 6:21 am
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:02 pm
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Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
@YoNnie Areen is currently busy driving in our league, but if you come over to our discord server he might still teach you a thing ir two xd


Tue May 26, 2020 8:09 am
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Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 1:32 pm
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Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Thank you for all the reply guys, seriously.
Thank you for the advise about Gimp and GRMHEdit, i'll try them surely.
Tuomo, your results with only TE are incredible :goodvibes: I would like to make tracks like that at least.
Unfortunately, last days I had much less time than i thought to work on tracks, I've just tried some little things.
First, i've tried with the classical paint on PC (Not MS Paint, it is a big difference?), i've exported the Lmap from TE, worked on paint, and imported on TE again, but when I made this TE reminds me that the pic is not a bitmap 512x512 16bit, even if in the properties of the pic those are the standars!!! And i don't know why, it was so demotivating.
Then i downloaded snakeditor. I make some tests with it, but i found it very hard to understand for the moment, even with the online instructions, then i downloaded LandEditor but windows says that the COMDLOG32.ocx doesnt' exist on my PC (????).
I even tried importing the bitmap on Adobe Illustrator HAHHAHAHAH exporting the bitmap in the correct values, but once i put it on TE it gives me the same problem than before.

[quote="Kikwik"]
Sure, creating a track is not an easy task nor a short one, but it's rewarding.

Oh sure, I undervalued the work behind a single track :shock:
Thank you for the advices, i'll try all of them, very slowly. Again, i wrote this post before a series of looooooooooong weeks :doh: :doh:

YoNnie, for what that regards tutorial i would be very happy of course, but i hope is useful for an entire community, perhaps. It's so sad that the forum isn't much active nowadays, Generally is an incredible game, so understimated but it's one of the best ever made, absolutely genius, and so funny after all those years.

P.S. Thank you for appreciating the track, but i want to say that this is not my first, but it's the one i consider the best of mine ahahhahah
So the skill starting level it's lower than this attempt suggests ahahha
Thank you again guys, all of you <3

P.P.S. As usual, excuse me for languages error


Tue May 26, 2020 10:24 am
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GeneRally Trackmaster

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:04 pm
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Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
Danador12 wrote:
First, i've tried with the classical paint on PC (Not MS Paint, it is a big difference?), i've exported the Lmap from TE, worked on paint, and imported on TE again, but when I made this TE reminds me that the pic is not a bitmap 512x512 16bit, even if in the properties of the pic those are the standars!!! And i don't know why, it was so demotivating.

Yes, I mean classical Paint. But that's exactly the way TE is picky, sometimes it claims your pic is not of correct bitmap. I've understood it's due to the palette being wrong. I've attached a bmp including all the surfaces to this post. This should force Paint to use the correct palette. Try using that and import it in TE. You can also use those patches of color to choose surfaces in Paint/other graphics program. By the way, I have also extracted the palette from a file like this and saved it to my Gimp palettes, just in case.
Quote:
then i downloaded LandEditor but windows says that the COMDLOG32.ocx doesnt' exist on my PC (????).

You find the correct dll in this thread. If it still doesn't work, use these instructions to register the file.
Quote:
I even tried importing the bitmap on Adobe Illustrator HAHHAHAHAH exporting the bitmap in the correct values, but once i put it on TE it gives me the same problem than before.

Using the bmp in this post should work there as well.

Hope these help. :)


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since 2002 // #241-246 expinmin7 [mic] [tpk] new .. #240 TEOring [cir] new .. #239 hill city [stc] new
my GR site .. all my tracks
Tue May 26, 2020 11:25 am
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Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 1:32 pm
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Post Re: [cir] Idyrt Improvement Helps
I worked on it a little bit guys, unfortunately i wasn't able to use the softwares you told me, so I still used classical TE and i think that i must use that at for a while :vsad: :vsad: . I think it's better than before but i don't know where i could improve more. Any other advices for the basic TE? :doh: :weep: :weep:


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Sat May 30, 2020 6:13 pm
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