GeneRally International Forum

I was talking about future races. Well for this one it's actually quite hard to change now because some may have made their races already. And giving them another 10 seconds for not choosing the right starting position (which was changed after they made their race) is absolutely not the right way to go, especially because they can't change it in the aftermath.
Another possibility would be using the old positions for the race but distributing the points (3p for the 1st, 2p for the 2nd and 1p for the third) after a new calculation.

Any way you do it it's not perfect

Off the top of my head:
- during Q if best lap is cut, 2nd best counts, if is cut too then BOP (or maybe 3 best can be considered).
- during R small cuts caused by devil IA - if not abused - should be unpunished and for unforced cut something like this: for 1st one warning, 2nd is 0.5s penalty, 3rd - another 1s, 4th, 5th, and 6th - 2s, 6th - BOP

I believe that way everyone will be treated fair.

This is the best system anti-cutting. You want cut? You lose time... in the race/qualif

... and a trap door at the pit wall, so that AI which miss the pit entrance don't bang it's head on the wall wondering like drunk all over the straight way for the rest of the race, would always be welcome.

Kaiserkoenig wrote:someone who leave the track with more than two tires, should get a penalty, too.

It's "all four wheels" as the rulebook says.

happy412 wrote:Very interesting that the top 6 are the persons which have cutted while qualifing Good luck for the race

Secondly, I said that if you don't jump the sunk tyres it's all good. Taking the rule and my statement into consideration, I can see that Gr Driver cutted short. Therefore, he was reprimanded and his second fastest lap was counted, which I assume to be clean. Personally, I'd say Akouk and Rennfahrer would have had no reason to complain either, if they had been punished for their line. XYY on the other hand was perfectly fine.

kuba wrote: - during Q if best lap is cut, 2nd best counts, if is cut too then BOP (or maybe 3 best can be considered).

Yeah correct, we do that already.

kuba wrote: - during R small cuts caused by devil IA - if not abused - should be unpunished and for unforced cut something like this: for 1st one warning, 2nd is 0.5s penalty, 3rd - another 1s, 4th, 5th, and 6th - 2s, 6th - BOP

This is taken into consideration before handing out penalties as well. We do not count every cut for every driver lap by lap (huge workload btw.) but we distinguish between rarely and frequently cutting drivers. Therefore, the penalty, as the rules say, may vary. The point is that we are more generous than what you suggest. GeneRally on 255 WS tracks and race distances of more than 10 mins do not necessarily allow you to stay error-free.
It's hard not to cross the exit line on some tracks even if you are cautious. That's why we've shortened most of them to be able to give penalties which all together will not wind up in an orgy like in Valencia/Ricardo Tormo 2010. And we don't like such orgies.

For me driving not as precisely on 255 WS tracks is part of the game that should be tolerated to a certain extent. It is however necessary to be more strict in (a) Qualifying and (b) cases where drivers rely on the leniency of the evaluator. I can very well understand you here.

There is actually only one solution able to achieve that:

Mszostus wrote:This is the best system anti-cutting. You want cut? You lose time... in the race/qualif
http://forum.generally-racers.com/downl ... &mode=view

We had that once before and there was an outcry of frustration because the time loss was said to be disproportionate and because you were crashed into by the AIs.

I agree that this is a bullet-proof solution that would even save us the time watching every lap of very driver as in Kuba's proposal. You can find that solution in your Monza practice track btw. I wanted to test that system there and see if the feedback would be still the same. So, it's not like we did not consider putting hay bales everywhere.

As the issue has arised even before that GP, I would be happy to hear your opinions NOW. Btw.: We do a questionnaire before every season. That would have been a great suggestion back then.

How should short-cutting be treated?
- "manually" punished by the evaluator or using Kuba's definite scale.
- prevented by putting a hay bale/cone/whatever on the apex. When? In QF and Race? QF? Race?

In my opinion it's best to put an object in Qualifying and to manually punish in race if one cuts again and again/several times.

Oh, I missed the discussion about cutting.

Ferrari is well Known for protest.

I forgot to mention in my post with results that drivers with no potential cutting picture
are free from cutting. As I said I found a possible cutting scene for nearly every driver.

Therefore it is not right that P1-P6 are the Bads and P7... are the Goods. I just don't
want to make a picture for all drivers late after midnight. I only took the first 6, just as in Replay.

Here are two more:



Track looks good in TE about Checkpoints and Sunk Tyres. But I think in this case
World size and Car size are not in good relationship, so the Cars can drive too fast
over the tires.

So we must live with that (and have a strict look for intentional cutting in Race)
or put a hundred hay bales in the corners as Rudy said.

Too late for changes - Races done:
Alonso, doncamillo, Happy412, Kuba, Lotus_Renault_GP, Majortom, Mszostus, SGroe

I can't see green between car and track. Also I didn't say that all drivers from top 6 cut. On screen you presented yesterday I would say only GR Driver and Akouk made cut.

About preventing cuts I fully agree with XYY.

I am strongly against hay bales inside the corner. I tested Monza and I think it could be a nightmare.
And I think manual punishment is best.

Well, as we can see from the screenshots more or less all drivers have the same line in that specific corner in Imola.I would not describe that as intentional cutting, it's a natural way to go through a high speed corner like that(every true racer will confirm that).To get it right you must attack aggressively the apex of the corner, and unfortunately it's impossible to be precise every single time especially in the race while adrenaline is rushing, not to mention unpredictable AI's.IMHO the only solution is hay bales both in Q and R.That should prevent discussions like this one, and will save some valuable time for organizers.

Thanks for your comments so far.

Mr.J wrote:I am strongly against hay bales inside the corner. I tested Monza and I think it could be a nightmare.
And I think manual punishment is best.

The practice tracks are qualifying tracks. I removed the hay bales for the race version. After 3 races on the hay bale version pre-season I must say that it's not going to be a nightmare. Nevertheless, I did not intend to use that version in the race.

If you put two sunk tyres on top of each other with 90 degrees difference (one tyre is now orientated /, two would be X), they will definitely slow the car down without stopping it completely. Definitely less annoying than hay bales.

Qualifications and race are totally different story. During Q hay bales are the best solution to make equal chances to everyone, but during R IAs are unpredictable and that would bring drama and frustration.

During qualifying session when I cut (e.g. like GR Driver at Villeneuve) I simply slows down to lose a second or two, so that lap won't be my fastest. Hay bales would force exactly that, if you cut, it makes time of this lap slower by few seconds.

During race it's more complicated. I already made my race at Imola and once I made cut at Variante Alta. But only once for 32 laps so it can't be intended. But if I knew that hay bale will be at that corner I would prepare to pass it much more careful/slower every lap.

kuba wrote: But if I knew that hay bale will be at that corner I would prepare to pass it much more careful/slower every lap.

Spot on.The driving style itself is different with hay bales(or any other object)than without them.I think we must have same conditions(track) in the Q and in the R. Putting objects only in qualifying means that we are practically racing on two different tracks.So I say objects in both sessions or none at all.

race done, but i think i've just crashed the crashable.

for the question above, if i'm allowed to, in my opinion is a better option to manually "punish" the infractions case by case following a scale rather than put objects in the corners.

wasn't there a classic login link somewhere?

http://www.majortom.de/pgrf1-login/login_classic.htm

I've just sent a race. The login tool is very unstable on my computer, probably it's my gear's fault, but still...

16 seconds from traning best

Results PGR F1 2012 Round 03
San Marino GP Imola - Race

Surprise on the podium - Congrats to the winner!

Some Racer want to look replays first, so you find all results by link:

Replays: link
Results Race: link
Drivers WM: link
Teams WM: link

Podiums Ceremony

GR Driver: several cuttings without AI opponents / Warning in Quali +10s
Rennfahrer: wrong AI car +3s
Dany: wrong AI car + 3s
doncamillo: wet palette Warning
Lotus Renault GP: 12km=16Laps

To avoid further Problems with cutting, Barcelona track was modified.
Please download and change trainings track or you will be surprised in Login.
04_Spain.zip

Login for Qualifying in Barcelona is ready - Good Luck

Track Update: Download

Congrats to flying Greek

Is the track for Q and R?
And the skunks can't be placed on the kerbs like this. I consider the kerbs a part of the track and how can I see the skunks when they are on the kerbs?

thanks , that's a surprise alright!

Three different winners
I think we had the championship contenders on podium Congrats Akouk