Car of the Month - Discussion topic

[XYY]

C'mon guys, nominate cars for

[Haruna]

I hate how entire packs of (very different) cars can be nominated instead of just single cars.
It gives more chance to carpacks which might have only one cartype a user prefers, but he nominates it anyway for the favorite car. BS IMO.
I think what can and what cannot be nominated should be defined more "specifically":
- ie. what defines "single car"?
> A pack consisting of liveries for a single cartype could be considered technically "single car"
> A pack consisting of cars of vastly different models, cartype, etc, irregardless of monotype physics is not a single car
> A file with only one car (both type and amount of selectable models) in it is obviously one

Without these rules I strongly believe carpacks will dominate, regardless the effort put into a single car!

[XYY]

Good idea. But Aaron should also think about that

[Crono]

I agree with Haruna Say. Single cars would be much better.

Cu Crono

[XYY]

But what about cars like F1 packs? I wouldn't like a Redbull 2010 by various carmakers and so on

[Trigger Happy]

Another idea - only one car from carpack could be nominated. In fact it would represent whole carpack in the election.

[XYY]

But I think e.g. ZeroCool likes all Wagan Midnight cars by Ms... and he would also nominate all cars I think

[ZeroCool]

Yeah, every car from WM pack is masterpiece, not a single car. Imo it should be the same as in ToM, you can nominate (or vote) for track who contains few layouts or diffrent textures, etc...

[Trigger Happy]

on other hand, if you'll nominate all of them, you'll kill chances of each of the car in the election. Thy will receive in sum maybe most votes, but each car 1-2 votes, so they'll be in bottom of results. So they should be nominated as whole ''pack'' or only one car of them as pack representant in CoM.

I think, that if cars have same physic (+/- small tiny differences in some values), they are ''one car''.

[XYY]

Is it up to US (Aaron and me) to test if they have similar values?

[Haruna]

No, a quick inspection in CarEditor will say enough.

[masa]

This game's cars are simple (40 polygons), and those can be imitated easily.

But an author's original cars are made with many long times. For example in my case, 2007 F1 was remodeling about 20 times (beta versions), and the latest was uploaded. It's so very hard work..

I permitted remodeling and upload of the F1 to an author. After that, an author's the looks almost exactly like my formula models, those are often uploaded. And there are also GT cars which looks like other maker's. That seems to be the present Chinese automobile Companies. Probably, an imitation-maker won't know the hardships for create new modeling cars. When if he knows it, so similar cars would not be uploaded..

Humm.. this is my idle complaint.

About an author's originality... That definition is ambiguous (vague) and a difficult question. But I hope a member(s) who understands that hardships..


p.s. GUNDAM, Pikachu, Turtles, Kyorochan, I'm convinced that an imitation-maker cannot make those from first step. It'll be impossible for him by all means..

The prize (CoM) is very important of course. But please understand the makers which challenges hardships. I respect track and car makers who produces imagination NEW..


sorry for my bad English..


[Edited]
A straightforward expression: I should add the work which challenged (tried) something new to the selection standard. I think CoM becomes manneristic, when if it isn't so. Each time, a car of a similar category would be winner, IMHO..

[Trigger Happy]

@ Ms... : if a car is derived from your model, it should be mentioned by the person, who posts it. Then in CoM the author would be surely written as ''Ms... & GUYXYZ'' (like in ToM, when is more authors). If you allowed it (derive a new car from your model), you surely requested to be mentioned together with release, if he didn't do that (not mention you), he broke your permission and went behind boarder piracy by breaking agreement with you. If you notice similar case, you can everytime ask him to add credits to you or ask us to delete the offender's effort.

[masa]

@ Trigger Happy:
About an author I say: His cars may not be judged as a boarder piracy, it's on the borderline limit, IMHO..

This game's cars are simple (40 polygons), and those can be imitated easily.
....Probably, an imitation-maker won't know the hardships for create new modeling cars.

For example on the supposition, there are author A and author B. A's car design, B can follow on A's model easily. I called B an imitation-maker. (a boarder piracy maker is different in the meaning, when if its name)

Author A sees and feels author B's cars, "Those are almost similar to my car designs." B easily imitates A's cars made by long hard time. B doesn't know A's hardships.

Its A's grief wouldn't happen in track making, because track making is complicated work. Many tracks were also made by me, so I know that.


The boarder piracy you say (it's meaning): Maybe that's A's file copy and remodels.. I found those cars by Planet Gene Rally Forum. It wasn't only my cars (Probably, other authors' cars were also included.) But I don't have registration of its web-site. I can't tell that, and can't speak the language. (I don't have dissatisfaction on my Tokyo DRIFT of the site. But I didn't know the upload. )

About an author's originality... That definition is ambiguous (vague) and a difficult question.

So, it's a difficult question. When if imitating CoM winner cars, author B would be able to get votes easily. Then CoM is an empty prize. I fear it..

Small number of cars wouldn't be able to avoid resembling. But...

[Trigger Happy]

thanks for clearing it, I misunderstood you.

[masa]

Thanks for accepting me.
You're kind.

I hope a member(s) who understands that hardships..

The imitation (resemblance) is easy..

[Haruna]

But an author's original cars are made with many long times.
<snip>
I permitted remodeling and upload of the F1 to an author. After that, an author's the looks almost exactly like my formula models, those are often uploaded. And there are also GT cars which looks like other maker's. That seems to be the present Chinese automobile Companies. Probably, an imitation-maker won't know the hardships for create new modeling cars. When if he knows it, so similar cars would not be uploaded..

Then nobody should ever nominate my stuff for CoM because many of my cars resemble other carmaker's style (GRM's Toyota Supra for instance), and many of my so-called scratch-made models were made after someone else had already posted them. In fact, even now I still have tendancy to imitate other models. Anyone who was at RSC back then knew I just imitated whatever I thought was the best look for whatever I was working on. Maybe imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but I say I'm just making a mockery of the real masters who put more time into perfecting one model than I ever did haphazardly putting 20 of them together.

[bduddy]

Even in real life, when there should be an infinite number of ways to design and build a car, my father always remarks that new cars all look similar (and he's sort of right!) and whenever a new model is posted on a website, all of the commenters immediately start saying how it's similar to such-and-such other car. When you're dealing with GR cars and only 40 polygons, it's inevitable that cars look a bit similar, but I haven't really noticed any problems. Of course if the car editor reveals evidence that something is actually copied it shouldn't be eligible for any awards (quite the opposite!), but similar-looking cars are inevitable, IMO, and I wouldn't worry too much. Besides, in my opinion, at least half the value of a car or carpack is in the physics; after all, this is a racing game, what good is a pretty-looking car if it's not fun to drive?

[dead14vii1640]

Even in real life, when there should be an infinite number of ways to design and build a car, my father always remarks that new cars all look similar (and he's sort of right!) and whenever a new model is posted on a website, all of the commenters immediately start saying how it's similar to such-and-such other car

Like Bduddy said, even real life cars look similar. For example, most sedans after the newest version of the BMW 3-series are very similar to what Bangle designed. You know, cars like Lexus IS, Ford Mondeo and many more have lots of things in common. I think authorized "face-lifted" versions of the cars should be allowed in the forum (like that Corvette ZR-1 I modified for you, Haruna).

[masa]

The car-makers who made many cars, they (and me) notice its similarity. Probably, a lot of members who make almost no car wouldn't notice its similarity..

Small number of cars wouldn't be able to avoid resembling. But...

Very a little polygon. So some cars are similar... BUT the maker(s) which makes imitation cars plainly.

About the word "plainly": The car makers who made many cars, they notice its plainly similarity. I think, the resemblances are intentional. BECAUSE the maker is making ONLY similar cars..

I know the author who doesn't like imitation cars and has left (quit) RSC. He was a wonderful and the famous car-maker. (Probably, he wouldn't visit here. The members who know him already are a little..)

I found this proverb. "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." I understand no English very well. But the proverb would be ironical, I feel.. The car-makers who kept being imitated would feel unpleasantness..

CoM may make imitation cars jumble up. Then car-makers who makes a new imagination would go away. And this car forum only of the imitations.

Something imitation makers want.. It'd be only attracts attention and get respect. Therefore, the maker(s) can make only imitation cars..

[XYY]

Yeah of course all cars are very similar.
But why should this a reason be to stop ?
You won't avoid phising at all and I personally think its faster to create cars on my own than on poly model of others

[masa]

It's not an behavior of files copy, but it's an behavior of the designs copy. When if the behavior is permitted, I'd copy all car designs of the excellent car-makers. (About designs: Relation of arrangement polygon and those points ratio etc..)

For example, Fechna, Haruna Say, Jerrec, or CoM winner cars, etc.. I can make their car designs from the first step. Then it's changed only a little parts. (BUT that's the empty behavior, I'll never do it. But there is an car-maker doing it..)

The imitation design car makes a specific car-maker (author) associate. And imitation-maker all cars make other car-makers associate.

But why should this a reason be to stop ?

I'm not telling the word to make CoM stop on this thread. I just want the imitation design car-maker to stop its intentional behavior.

Small number of cars wouldn't be able to avoid resembling. But...

Very a little polygon. So some cars are similar... BUT the maker(s) which makes imitation cars plainly.

It's the 3rd time that I say that..

Very a little polygon, those are 40. Therefore some cars are similar. Those aren't avoided. BUT there is an car-maker, who as imitating intentionally all his cars , I feel.. I want the car-maker to stop the behavior that will be the intentional imitation..


A digression: Others person (mekers) are respected, then the tacit rule considered for them. Probably, that would exist in only Japanese culture. That's JINGI by Japanese words. But that doesn't exist in English. So I can't tell that..

There are no JINGI and kindness for the behavior..
Probably, my thought (mind) wouldn't be transmitted.. :a sigh:

[Haruna]

For example... Haruna Say... I can make their car designs from the first step. Then it's changed only a little parts. (BUT that's the empty behavior, I'll never do it. But there is an car-maker doing it..)

The imitation design car makes a specific car-maker (author) associate. And imitation-maker all cars make other car-makers associate.

Thanks for driving the point home that I should leave carmaking forever, man. It's about time someone put me in my place.

Cheers,
Haruna.

[AleksiNir]

Thanks for driving the point home that I should leave carmaking forever, man. It's about time someone put me in my place.

Cheers,
Haruna.

I don't think he meant that you are bad or something, just that it is easy (for him, at least) to copy the design.

Why should a Räbinä award winner quit carmaking anyway?

[Lukeno94]

Exactly, it's actually very easy to copy a car - you look at the vertex values, and change them slightly.