PGR F1 World Championship 2016 [HL/Race] [Login]

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RobertRacer
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Re: PGR F1 World Championship 2016 [HL/Race] [Login]

Post by RobertRacer »

Same thing like in the 24 hours of Le Mans of the IES. I drove the race, but the game didn't let me do a save. :mad: 70 Minutes of racing wasted.
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kuba
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Post by kuba »

Make a save (and screenshot) before ending race (just after passing finish line) - so you will have at least finish with warning for not making screen with final results.
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Lorenzo
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Post by Lorenzo »

Trigger Happy wrote:This is a track, where one really doesn't want to race with 6 retarded AIs
I raced with 5, and the sixth retarded one on track was not AI to my knowledge :shhh:

And they were really weird, the best of AIs struggled like half of the distance behind the worst one after the T1 chaos reversed the grid, and I thought they could have been a little more gentle towards me, but no disappointment somehow. There were like only 2 corners where overtaking was a real struggle and it was better not to hurry there, and honestly during this season there were much more difficult races in terms of overtaking (Monaco, Montreal, Turkey, Australia, and I had really bad luck in France and Malaysia).
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Post by Trigger Happy »

Lorenzo wrote:I raced with 5, and the sixth retarded one on track was not AI to my knowledge :shhh:
:doh: :rofl: Thanks, Lorenzo.
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Post by majortom »

Results PGR F1 2016 Round 09
British GP - Silverstone - Race

8/100s seconds gap at the top, but penalty decides the victory!
Congrats to the Winner :winner:

Some Racer want to look replays first, so you find all results by link:

Replays: link
Results Race: link
Drivers WM: link
Teams WM: link
All Results incl. Data.txt: link


Login for Qualifying on Nürburgring is ready.

Trackupdate Round10: link

Good Luck
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Lorenzo
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Post by Lorenzo »

dat synchronic driving from 6:00...

Last two races without AIs could have really gone either way.

can't get where does the penalty come from (I could do nothing to change my direction after being catapulted and I tried to maintain a moderate speed for a moment right after the cut and eventually I didn't have any benefit from there as you can see I gained nothing, even though maclape made a small mistake) but ok :taped:

Edit: the reasoning that lap 15 was quicker than laps 14 and 16 is quite silly, apart from the cut lap 15 was really solid while on lap 14 I was overtaking and no wonder lap 16 is slower since the tyres wear out and it was 7th lap of the stint already, when grip really started to fade away.
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Buka
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Post by Buka »

I can't agree with the teammate about the track, it was OK, imho. Montreal and Monaco, for example, were much shittier :P But in general - yes, kinda poor track selection from our fellow racers, people chose names and not driveability.
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Post by Trigger Happy »

I understand you, guys, in Montreal and Monaco I was frustrated rather by crashing due close walls, not by overtaking or by interupting rythm or fast line like here, that's why different feelings about those 3 on my side (actually I was practicing for both those events and I've sent files for British GP with a time out of top 10, hopefully it will be found in a spam inbox). :shrug:
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Post by RudyOosterndijk »

Lorenzo wrote:I could do nothing to change my direction after being catapulted and I tried to maintain a moderate speed for a moment right after the cut and eventually I didn't have any benefit from there as you can see I gained nothing, even though maclape made a small mistake.
I still have to look into the replays but from what I was told, this was treated with the Jerez precedence in mind.
Buka wrote:But in general - yes, kinda poor track selection from our fellow racers, people chose names and not driveability.
That's an illusion that we fell for when we came to GRIF for the first time (which was when we introduced the circuit elections). But we think that there can be different motivations behind your choice. Choosing circuits because they feature in the real F1 championship is also perfectly legit.
Actually, driveability should be a concern of ours. And it actually is. Most if not all of the circuits that we nominate prior to the elections earned their place because they seemed all right in terms of driveability. Our almost weekly track updates are meant to fine-tune a lot of small problems, all of which did not immediately become obvious after the first laps of testing. But there is only so much we can do.

Take Indianapolis for example, where we exchanged the AI line, even reconstructed a part of the track and made a lot of cosmetic changes along the usual adjustments to sunk tyres etc. We could have easily kept on as we knew that there was a lot of criticism about the second to fourth corner on this forum, which we thought was legit with regard to the real world corner complex but did not really affect driveability and would have required too much of a change to the original track as well.

Silverstone is a circuit that has undergone massive changes since its first appearance. Out of my head, we added some sunks, gravel traps and the Lorenzo rumble strips. We changed the pit exit after Mr.J's issues in 2012 and in 2016. And there probably were changes to the AI line into the pits, depending on the car physics of each year. Personally, I did not experience anything extraordinary going on with the AI. They always have some problems through the ultra-fast kinks and esses.

We do want the AI to be a bit of a factor in your approach to the race. They might force you to pit one lap earlier but they are not supposed to be road blocks. But getting them right is not that easy, especially on tracks like Monaco, where you are happy to see them completing a lap without crashing in the first place. But in general, we want them to keep the door open in a number of corners to give you a real chance of passing. Luckily, we can leave most of the AI lines untouched.

Speaking of it, the AI had some cornering issues at the Nürburgring and in the mixed/wet, concerning the first corner and the final chicane. So we have made some additional changes to the race versions, which will be published on Thursday, that will help the AI keep their cars on the track but makes overtaking harder in these spots.
Trigger Happy wrote:I was practicing for both those events and I've sent files for British GP with a time out of top 10, hopefully it will be found in a spam inbox). :shrug:
Just checked our inbox and it arrived at 0:31 today. Would have been 12th right ahead of Buka without penalties.
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Post by Trigger Happy »

RudyOosterndijk wrote:Just checked our inbox and it arrived at 0:31 today. Would have been 12th right ahead of Buka without penalties.
It's strange, not the being in spam, but the arrival time - I've sent it at 19:18 CEST. :scratch:
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Post by RudyOosterndijk »

Trigger Happy wrote:I've sent it at 19:18 CEST. :scratch:
... using a messenger pigeon. ;) Tom gets to know about that, no problem.
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Post by majortom »

Update Race Silverstone incl. Trigger Happy

see results above ...
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Post by Trigger Happy »

Thank you! :up:
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Post by Lorenzo »

I don't know if my case is actually being reconsidered or not, but at least I'd like to finally put it all together in some quasi-official way.


Point 11.6 of PGR Formula One Sporting Regulations says that:

"If a driver leaves the track as marked by the white lines with all four wheels, bounces
off walls or uses any other object to gain an advantage, he will be given a time penalty
depending of the gravity of the infringement."


First of all, getting an advantage was neither the intention nor an expected outcome of my maneuver. I made a mistake in Maggots, driving onto a sunk tyre, after which I wasn't able to correct the line like I wanted (my car is rotating to the right in the air and very unstable), and it was practically unavoidable. So that has nothing to do with being opportunistic, and actually if you looked carefully, after the landing and right before and after cutting the corner I didn't use the full power of the car, but I didn't exaggerate it either and slowed down just a little bit, being sure that my mistake cost me just enough time.
And it did - which leads to my second point that that indeed no actual advantage was gained. If you compared the distance between me and maclape before entering Maggots and before Stowe you see that I didn't come any closer to him (actually I lost like 0,05s or so), even though the line that maclape had through M-B-C was not the best you could imagine, with some noticeable mistake in Chapel, so what I did was merely an emergency maneuver, insignificant in terms of overall results.
Last edited by Lorenzo on Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by RudyOosterndijk »

Lorenzo wrote:I don't know if my case is actually being reconsidered or not, but at least I'd like to finally put it all together in some quasi-official way.
Will come to that later when I will have understood it myself. So far I have only briefly seen the problem, which, according to Tom, was "not quite evident" by watching the merged replay alone.

Edit:
Leaving the track and bouncing of objects "to gain an advantage" does not presuppose malicious intent or any opportunistic motivation in order for this rule to be applied. It is perfectly enough if the maneuver is "suitable to gain an advantage". Admittedly, the rulebook needs to be reworked and this is just a common sense rule that should be rephrased in order to prevent any misinterpretation.

After the Jerez case, where you just about left the track while overtaking the AI, we made clear that, in the future, we would not accept such an optimistic approach to track limits, which involved overtaking in Jerez. As for short-cutting we said that any attempt to compensate for the time gained by short-cutting (e.g. the Harbour Chicane in Monaco) must be appropriate and recognizable to us. One of our problems was that your alleged attempt to slow down was really enough to compensate because we are talking about fractions of a second here and it is hard to make out what kind of slow-down maneuver you pulled off because there was no zig-zagging or driving to the side of the track as we recommended.

Secondly, we have a different point of reference when we want to judge if there was any gain in time. We cannot simply go by the gap to Maclape up to Chapel because you compromised your line into Becketts quite significantly due to the mistake you made before. So there is another hypothetical loss in time if you had continued on track, which we disagree on would have been an option but obviously a more costly one. In this sense we feel that the move was "opportunistic" because it minimized/undercompensated further and unavoidable loss in time directly related to the driving error by leaving the track. Yes, in real life I have seen many F1 drivers with broken front wings in Abu Dhabi cutting about every corner to make it to the pits in no time. But this has never been our interpretation of a none-advantage.

I am going to make some sort of evaluation tomorrow and come back to you.
Last edited by RudyOosterndijk on Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Mszostus
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Post by Mszostus »

0,41 slower than TR :(
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Post by majortom »

Results PGR F1 2016 Round 10
German GP - Nürbugring - Qualifying

Image

Full Size

Clear gap in the rain :wow: - Pole to Lorenzo - Congrats

Replay of fastest 6 drivers: link

Every Driver with Quali starts from position corresponding to his Quali position.
All Driver without Quali must start from Pitlane.

Here are the Tracks for practice:
Nürburgring Grid

Weather changed to mixed.
Change palette, your car and all AIs! - T/FC/FM/D - 18/5/90/25

Login for Race is ready on Friday 0:00 - Good Luck
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Mszostus
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Post by Mszostus »

On the training track 25km=27laps (947m) on the Tracks for practice 25=26laps (990m). Where laps on login?
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Post by RudyOosterndijk »

Mszostus wrote:On the training track 25km=27laps (947m) on the Tracks for practice 25=26laps (990m). Where laps on login?
Thursday's tracks for practice are exactly what you can expect.
Since track length is determined by the AI line, which we had to adjust due to the mixed weather, there are now only 26 laps fitting in the predetermined race length of 25 km.
Lorenzo wrote:I don't know if my case is actually being reconsidered or not, but at least I'd like to finally put it all together in some quasi-official way.
OK, so here we go finally. It was a bit tricky and I needed some time to figure it all out. I will jump in right after my latest post on the matter.
To summarize briefly, we said that any attempt to compensate for the time gained by short-cutting (e.g. the Harbour Chicane in Monaco) must be appropriate and recognizable to us. One of our problems was that your alleged attempt to slow down was really enough to compensate because we are talking about fractions of a second here and it is hard to make out what kind of slow-down maneuver you pulled off because there was no zig-zagging or driving to the side of the track as we recommended.

Secondly, we have a different point of reference when we want to judge if there was any gain in time. The whole maneuver began at stage 1 and ended in Chapel at 6, which is shortly before Maclape's mistake. In our illustration below we are using Maclape's car as an indication of which line we would have expected from you if you hadn't made that mistake in Maggots in 2.

Image

You can see that the gap between stage 3 and 6 is not growing as indicated by the distance between your Williams and the green car. This is our main problem because you fail to compensate for the loss of time that you experience after stage 3 and as a direct consequence of your mistake, which we agree on "was practically unavoidable".
That is because you are still very much airborne at stage 3 and, as you reported, "not able to correct the line". You gained full control of your car at stage 4, possibly a little earlier. At this point, turning back right (or any maneuver suitable to return to the tarmac) and follow the track would have been a very time-costly option. Your racing line through the esses would have been heavily compromised and you would have had to accelerate again, certainly.

One might argue that you were either unlucky or too optimistic to find yourself in a situation like this. But it does not matter because we have never accepted a previous mistake or mishap as mitigating circumstances. Mr.J in Great Britain 2012 was one of first cases that come to mind.
So how much time did you gain? In comparison to a very good and legitimate line through the esses, your way of driving might have cost you 0.06 to 0.07 seconds, considering that a car's length is equivalent to 0.09 or 0.10 seconds. For a maneuver that consists of an early turn-in (stage 1 to 2), crashing a sunk tyre at 2, being airborne at 3 and being carried away from the racing line in 4, this is really not much loss.
That is because you did not compensate for the loss of time between stage 3 and 4. Your gap in 3 is almost exactly the same as in 6. To put it differently: If this gap was supposed to be enough, you should have been able to follow the green car right after stage 3 on his ideal line through the corners at the same speed.
Giving you a precise estimation of which gap would have been appropriate is almost impossible to do and, luckily, is not needed in this case. Again, as we said in a completely different constellation in Australia this year, we usually refrain from giving exact predictions when we award penalties because we cannot perfectly correct for gained advantages afterwards. That is why in Monaco we recommended to (over-) compensate for any potential gain of time yourself and make it clearly visible to us as you race.
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Post by majortom »

Results PGR F1 2016 Round 10
German GP - Nürburgring - Race

This time no penalty and 4 sec gap for the Winner - Congrats :winner:

Some Racer want to look replays first, so you find all results by link:

Replays: link
Results Race: link
Drivers WM: link
Teams WM: link
All Results incl. Data.txt: link


Login for Qualifying Spa is ready.

Trackupdate Round11 Spa: link

Good Luck
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Results PGR F1 2016 Round 11
Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps - Qualifying

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Full Size

A 22 is necessary for Pole. Decision on last few meters!
Congrats to maclape :clap:

Replay of fastest 6 drivers: link

Every Driver with Quali starts from position corresponding to his Quali position.
All Driver without Quali must start from Pitlane.

Here are the Tracks for practice:
Spa Grid

Login for Race is ready on Friday 0:00 - Good Luck
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Post by RudyOosterndijk »

What's going on Twitter?

Thanks to Maclape's win in 2015, Caterham - Windblitz were prematurely crownd champions of the constructors. Another win this year would help his personal ambitions.
Image
We might still see all of them at the same time this season.
Image
A bit of a sad stat...
Image
2011 was the year of Caterham's one-lap-wonder XYY. With six pole positions over the whole season, the young German proved his extraordinary skills on a hot lap. The Qualifying in Spa-Francorchamps, however, was a real nail-biter. Towards the end of the session, Toro Rosso's Akouk, who went on to win the Drivers' Championship that year, managed exactly the same time as XYY. But pole position went to the German because he had set his time first.

#throwbackthursday
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Lorenzo
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Post by Lorenzo »

akouk cut the chicane at 0:08 :shhh:
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