Developer Blog

[RacerBG]

However, what we will also be doing is offering a freeware version of GeneRally 2 at release. This version will be 100% compatible with the paid version, but will be (as a minimum) as feature-complete as GeneRally 1, and be compatible with all GeneRally 2 tracks, cars and save games. It will include all of our core gameplay mechanics as well as the track editor, the car editor, cross-platform support, improved graphics, controller support, etc.

I'm fine with this but not in long term if you understand what I mean. Sounds like "we will have first day DLC for free and then another, another and so on". I'm fine also with the lack of Multiplayer for "the free version" but this with cutted features sounds like discrimination. There are 2 ways: fully paid game or fully free game. The third way is always full with black holes.

If we are unable to raise the money to cover these costs in some form or other (Kickstarter or otherwise), it is unlikely that GeneRally 2 will see the light of day at all, let alone as a freeware download.

I already said my opinion about the money and the community problem... Sorry for the negative feeling but looks GR2 will remain only as a dream if this is your conclusion...

[LongBow]

We've just posted an additional developer blog about the future of GeneRally 2 as a freeware title, to hopefully clear up our stance on the matter - as it's better for there to be certainty than wild speculation

I understand your point of view and agree on it

[ACM]

In all of gaming history, I have never heard of a randomly generated anything match the finesse of that same thing made by human hands. Who would choose random track generation over plonking together one themselves in ten minutes, which will probably still come out better? -- or downloading from a backlog of thousands of custom tracks? Indeed, track editing is the raison d'être.

If anything, building your own tracks and cars are the real incentive to fork over cash.

[1nsane]

We've just posted an additional developer blog about the future of GeneRally 2 as a freeware title, to hopefully clear up our stance on the matter - as it's better for there to be certainty than wild speculation

Yep that's a good split. I'd have gone with the same features for the paid version. Although maybe I'd also have added the car editor and an extended version of the track editor in there.

[puttz]

Fair enough. Good that you posted that, I was starting to get worried that the free version would be stripped down some. If it's at least as feature rich as GR1, that's fine by me. Although I'm hoping to donate enough to get the full version if it comes out.

Perhaps login system will remain a thing during the GR2 era, who knows?

I'm sure the login system will remain in use, as that is the only practical way (without inconveniencing some people) that racers from all over the world can compete against each other. And I'm sure there would at least be some people that would want to run "legacy" compos (*cough* me *cough*) to recall the original days of GR using the login system.

Also, one more thought. If the Kickstarter were to fail to reach the goal, might it be possible to just keep issuing updates to GR1, and adding a few small features here and there (a few more TE objects, perhaps provide an "official" car editor, slightly increasing the car poly count, more default palettes that could be used for time of day transitions, selecting weather conditions, etc.)?

[CozmicDragon]

Paid version = The full game itself, as planned.
Free version = Essentially a huge update to GR1.

Who wouldn't agree with this? It's a win-win situation, doesn't matter if you pay or not, you still get the editors, and who needs "random track generation"? Good trackmakers create their tracks from scratch. Online multiplayer? Honestly, I don't even know if I'll be a full-fledged racer, and I personally find the login system more fun than any online multiplayer that exists, existed and will exist. Surely online is more realistic, and thus most compos in the GR2 era will use it, but I hope the good old login system isn't abandoned fully!

As long as I can make cars for GR2, I'm fine to get a version without the more fancy stuff, as long as it's free.

[Kikwik]

Ouch ! It's a very difficult situation we have here...

If you put a freeware version which is very similar to the paid version, what would lead us to pay for Kickstarter ?

I try to imagine myself in someone interested in this game. If someone heard about GR2, is very interested, is ready to give money on Kickstarter and finally read this, he will say : "Oh ! Great ! I don't have to pay but just wait until the free version will be released, as it's very similar to the paid version !". And he will keep his money. And GR2 will not be fully released.

The advantage you have is that people is impatient and if they're very interested, they will pay as soon as possible because they can't stand more...

And I'm agree with ACM. What interest there is to randomized our tracks ? By this way they lose their identity, their unique feeling and the signature of the author which have his own style. If there is a way to simplify the creation, it's already enough for me.

I'm agree with you as developers on one point. I'm sure Hannu and Jukka didn't have so much problems with the community than you !

Good luck !

[TuomoH]

I think online multiplayer is a big difference between free and pay version. And when it comes to track randomizing, chance is a big part of several art movements, why not a sub-genre of GR tracks? Can't wait to see how it works, not as ready tracks but as starting point to something interesting.

[Lukeno94]

Sorry, but I simply cannot support this. GeneRally is freeware, and it should always be that. Having a paid-for version completely destroys that, regardless of the exact feature sets of both versions. GeneRally 1.0 was made for the love of it; GR 2.0 is clearly being made as a for-profit enterprise, and I find that simply unacceptable. Providing Kickstarter perks is fine, this is not. The Kickstarter will take a miracle to succeed, and this particular strategy is going to cause problems as well; you've shot yourselves in the foot big style.

[resir014]

Sorry, but I simply cannot support this. GeneRally is freeware, and it should always be that. Having a paid-for version completely destroys that, regardless of the exact feature sets of both versions. GeneRally 1.0 was made for the love of it; GR 2.0 is clearly being made as a for-profit enterprise, and I find that simply unacceptable. Providing Kickstarter perks is fine, this is not. The Kickstarter will take a miracle to succeed, and this particular strategy is going to cause problems as well; you've shot yourselves in the foot big style.

I have to agree with Luke on this part, unfortunately.

You originally promised us to keep the true "freeware" nature of GR while still giving perks for those to contribute. Now you're just turning the game into a shareware, limiting features only to a certain people who paid for it. Which is unacceptable to me.

While I understand you want people to back your goal, but PLEASE, keep GR freeware as it's supposed to be.

[FRUKIScze]

I wanted to send you some money for buying some editing programs, or anything else, which you need to buy to made sequel of Generally. But i won't send you money for some marketing, buying licenses for legal selling GR v2.0, etc. Generally was freeware game and WE (community) want to keep it as a freeware game...That's the spirit of generally.

btw. 25.000pounds is really, REALLY much.

[Szmajli]

Sorry, but I simply cannot support this. GeneRally is freeware, and it should always be that. Having a paid-for version completely destroys that, regardless of the exact feature sets of both versions. GeneRally 1.0 was made for the love of it; GR 2.0 is clearly being made as a for-profit enterprise, and I find that simply unacceptable. Providing Kickstarter perks is fine, this is not. The Kickstarter will take a miracle to succeed, and this particular strategy is going to cause problems as well; you've shot yourselves in the foot big style.

I totally agree. I'm thinking about 2-3 days to say something about this "thing". But I can't write it down better than you!

[Lukeno94]

GeneRally will end up going where TrackMania is now; a stupid business decision essentially killing off the community.

[Glen]

Guy's, they worked hard for this game... personal investment = money

[Trigger Happy]

Precisely like Glen says. It's not about making profit, but about developing it in reasonable time without making debts, these guys have other life, responsibility for families etc., wake up.

Edit: plus if Rabinas think the solution is fine for the GR(2), then it's fine for GR(2).

[Mad Dan]

Developers are no high school guys. They actually have to pay cash for living if you don't get it.

[Glen]

They are two programmers. They worked for two years. only, ONLY 35% of the 25000£ are living costs.

(Goal*Living Costs Ratio)/(programmers*years) = (25000*0.35)/(2*2) = 2187,5 £/Year/programmer...

It's nothing, NOTHING! I am currently looking for a 40K/year job

Programmer is a real job, and I see this as a gift from them.

[Lukeno94]

GeneRally 1.0 was made without a single penny of investment by a community. I'm sorry, but in this day and age, these arguments just don't wash. Take Racer, for example. A free racing simulation, which took a lot more work and they programmed the game engine and pretty much everything in it. Here, GR 2.0 uses Unity, so the hardest work - the underlying engine - is already done for them. The Kickstarter aims are extremely unrealistic, and to do both that and try and turn GeneRally into a shareware game...

Your arguments become even less valid when you consider that they had jobs before, so there was no need to start charging anything whatsoever for this. No one was asking them to produce this in a super-quick timeframe. And you can see from these arguments that this decision will essentially split the community in half - and it's small enough to start with.

And I live off £7k a year, as a student.

[Trigger Happy]

GeneRally 1.0 was made without a single penny of investment by a community.

Yes, that's why development of GR1 ended more than decade ago - because R bros had to start thinking on own living instead spending time by some game coding. Until James and co. took it over.

[puttz]

GeneRally 1.0 was made without a single penny of investment by a community.

Yes, that's why development of GR1 ended more than decade ago - because R bros had to start thinking on own living instead spending time by some game coding. Until James and co. took it over.

That makes perfect sense to me. I must say that I am a little on the fence about the freeware/payware thing, although I think that the solution they have come up with is acceptable enough that I would still support it. After all, the free version will be the same as the current version, just with all of the updated goodies plus a new car editor. That would probably be satisfactory to at least a decent number of people.

[Lukeno94]

There are far bigger games that are coming out as freeware, or around this price point, and what happens when the Kickstarter fails? Does the price go up through the roof? You would need 3125 people paying the minimum amount to reach the target. Even those who can afford more simply won't be able to reduce the deficit.

[James]

First off, I'd like to express our sincere thanks to those who've been supportive/understanding of our need to cover our basic costs with this project - we really are grateful for the tremendous encouragement it gives us to continue working on the game In an ideal world, we would all be able to provide everything for nothing and live in a state of world peace and harmony... but as most of you seem to be aware, it doesn't quite work like that

Sorry, but I simply cannot support this.

Then don't - no-one is being forced to contribute anything. We'll be very grateful of the support we do receive and that'll be that

GR 2.0 is clearly being made as a for-profit enterprise, and I find that simply unacceptable.

We've already put many hundreds of hours into this project, and will continue to do so - none of the involved parties will make a penny from this even if we hit the Kickstarter budget. It's a shame you, and some others in this thread, feel that we should spend our own money to provide you with free entertainment. We've been fair and reasonable with our budget, outlined all the details of how and where the budget will be spent, and been far more open than any other development team would even consider being. An absurd amount of effort has gone into this so far, as have hundreds of pounds of our own hard-earned cash (none of which we'll get back via the Kickstarter, BTW)... it's a shame that when we ask to cover our costs going forward we're branded as "for profit"

You originally promised us to keep the true "freeware" nature of GR while still giving perks for those to contribute. Now you're just turning the game into a shareware, limiting features only to a certain people who paid for it. Which is unacceptable to me.

Sorry to hear you feel that way - but, we have never promised that the game would be freeware. We did say that we had a plan to offer GR2 as freeware in some form, but at no point did we promise we wouldn't pursue other options. Sale of the game (in some form) has been a necessity from day one, and part of the agreement we have with Hannu & Jukka and we've made no attempts to hide this. Furthermore, we feel we have been more than fair in offering an entirely ground-up-rebuilt GeneRally, with all the features present in GR1 (and a few more) for absolutely no cost. No features have been removed from our plans for the freeware version, we are simply adding extra features for those who contribute to funding - the freeware version is not a demo.

I wanted to send you some money for buying some editing programs, or anything else, which you need to buy to made sequel of Generally. But i won't send you money for some marketing, buying licenses for legal selling GR v2.0, etc. Generally was freeware game and WE (community) want to keep it as a freeware game...That's the spirit of generally.

Things cost money - I'm not really sure what else I can say to this. It's not a reasonable expectation for Markku, Kimmo and myself to incur significant financial cost simply to deliver a free product - there is no way on this planet, in these economic times, we can afford to do that. I can't put it any more simply than that: if we can't at least cover the basic project costs, GR2 simply will not happen

Here, GR 2.0 uses Unity, so the hardest work - the underlying engine - is already done for them.

The hardest work? Heh. Well, then why are we even bothering? As just about anyone can now do this job with absolutely no real effort - get in touch and I'll get Hannu & Jukka to transfer the rights to you instead

And I live off £7k a year, as a student.

Mortgage, gas bill, water bill, electricity bill, supporting a child, food, etc. on £583/mo.? Wow. And you come right in under the tax exemption bracket in the UK too... all of us silly people paying taxes and having jobs must be doing something very, very wrong with our lives. For reference, I can't even pay my mortgage with £583/mo., even before tax

[Lukeno94]

No one says you should spend your own money. That's the entire point; you've moved away from the minimalistic freeware roots in a dramatic way. No one asked you to take this on as a full-time job, and no one asked you to start charging above and beyond what this game is worth. And frankly, I'm not sure why we should buy your excuses about mortgage and things; you chose to quit whatever job you had that paid those bills, and then to take GeneRally off in a frankly inappropriate direction. GeneRally has never been about shareware, and it never should be.

My £7k a year includes rent (which also includes most of the bills you levied), so your high-horse approach is also utterly inappropriate.

[James]

And frankly, I'm not sure why we should buy your excuses about mortgage and things; you chose to quit whatever job you had that paid those bills, and then to take GeneRally off in a frankly inappropriate direction. GeneRally has never been about shareware, and it never should be.

Who said I left my job, or that any of us left our jobs? We all still work full time. That doesn't mean we have piles of cash falling out of our pockets, and no idea what to do with it.

When we announced the Kickstarter, we said it would include some money to allow us to take time from work to produce the game more quickly - that's part of the basis of the entire fundraising campaign. As I said above, if you have a problem with how the funds are assigned, simply don't back us - but don't try and slander three hard-working individuals who are doing this project for the love of the game, and will not profit at all from the funds raised. We've been working on this in our spare time for over a year now, so it's not like we're asking for a red carpet through to the project's completion.

I was always taught "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything." I'm sorry you don't approve of the direction that we've decided to go, I really am, but there really is no need for this full out assault on our characters and intentions (two things you have absolutely no way of knowing about anyway).

[Lukeno94]

Well, the entire impression of "we need this money to keep living" implied that you had left your jobs. Since you haven't, that reinforces the "this is for profit" point far more. The only reason you won't profit is because you set an unrealistic goal on the Kickstarter...