Developer Blog

[resir014]

There are people who are very anti-Steam, for starters. It's a form of DRM, that's another issue for some people. And said Steam fee increases the price even further. And there are people who are very dubious of Steam Greenlight games, myself included.

Steam is technically just a content delivery platform. It's not DRM. There are various DRM-free indies you'll be able to find on the store. Steamworks is the DRM usually associated with Steam.

The Greenlight list are not always loaded with poop games. There are some awesome ones, like 7 Days to Die, Papers Please, The Stanley Parable etc.

[Lukeno94]

Steam is most definitely a form of DRM. If you buy a game through Steam, it is linked to your account, and most games are engineered not to start without you being logged into your Steam account, and Steam running.

"Steam is a digital distribution, digital rights management, multiplayer, and communications platform developed by Valve Corporation."

[Trigger Happy]

Thank you, I think most of us know, how steam works. And I'm still missing the point, because there are plenty of games on Steam (mostly indie games) that don't require any DRM and can be run without Steam even logged in or open.

Or because you dislike Steam and because GR1 wasn't distributed there (because steam haven't existed in release time btw), would James and co. commit a deadly sin against a GR commandment, if would decide to use Steam as of several ways, how to distribute the GR2? Which btw they several times mentioned in past months, so I don't know why are trying to make fuss now about it. Your posts more and more remind me a hater than a person interested in constructive discussion and I'd appreciate, if you'd be able to move backk within its borders (without any need me to take an action).

[Lukeno94]

I don't personally dislike Steam, but the Kickstarter bit was widely discussed and everyone was aware of it. This Steam Greenlight thing, however, has only been made public to those who use Twitter. The fact still stands; there are plenty of people who are strongly anti-Steam and/or anti-DRM. And if you're getting a kick out of threatening me, then that shows just how sad you are.

[Kaiserkoenig]

I support the Kickstarter-Idea, but I don't like Steam. If Generally 2 comes out on Steam, it is no longer so familiar how it was Generally 1. Maybe it's a easier way to play online with other people, but I'm not happy with it.
That's what I have to say, about this topic.

[bduddy]

There are people who are very anti-Steam, for starters. It's a form of DRM, that's another issue for some people. And said Steam fee increases the price even further. And there are people who are very dubious of Steam Greenlight games, myself included.

How does the game non-exclusively being on Steam make it any worse? I don't see anything saying it would be available only on Steam...

[1nsane]

Heh, I'd just be happy if the game ended up in Steam. Sure, it's DRM, but it's DRM that _works_. Unless you are using a toaster to play, it doesn't really create a noticeable hit on your power.

Besides, it's not like if you have the game in Steam you can't have it anywhere else. I've bought many titles from their original pages and they've provided a Steam key too once they've got in there. The same is with all of the Kickstarted or otherwise pre-purchased games. So you can have that cutesy DRM free version on your desktop you can look at every morning you open up your computer. And then you can have a copy in Steam, Desura, etc. where you can actually start it with no hassle.

But considering the Greenlight. You should either do it at the same time as you go for Kickstarter, or then you should wait until you have a proper version, maybe even completed game. Valve are going to change the way the Greenlight works, they might even close the whole thing pretty soon. So unless the game gets in soon, it could end up in some kind of limbo.

[Bouncebackability]

Going slightly OT here, but why don't people like Steam? I've use Steam for a few games and have never really had any issue with it?

[duck]

Unless you are using a toaster to play, it doesn't really create a noticeable hit on your power.

The low system requirements are one of the key features of generally though.

[Herbal]

Unless you are using a toaster to play, it doesn't really create a noticeable hit on your power.

The low system requirements are one of the key features of generally though.

Exactly, to be honest, the game should be capable to be run on a "toaster" (but at least on a 5-6 years old computer).

[Trigger Happy]

Only to remind a detail related to relevance of ATM-discussed matter:

... Personally, I'm strongly anti-DRM ...

[AleksiNir]

Going slightly OT here, but why don't people like Steam? I've use Steam for a few games and have never really had any issue with it?

There are several factors in it. For example, people don't legally own the games bought from Steam, Valve is only giving temporary access to the games (which of course in practice is permanent), and it mostly requires you to be online to play, since the offline mode works quite sloppily, and Valve almost has monopoly on digital distribution of games, etc etc. Anyway people who don't like Steam are a minority.

I think that getting GR2 on Steam would be a huge thing. Since it's such a big platform, it would inform several millions of people of GR, people who have never heard of it before.

@1nsane: If I've understood correctly what is going on with Greenlight, while they might remove it as it currently is, they are still going to support easier access into Steam for small indie games in some way.

[Rendy]

Now it's time for my confession after I read the discussion about GR2 being a Shareware or kind (which I don't think it WILL be).

I support GR2's Kickstarter project and I don't think that the game will go to the Shareware path because I know that one of the last things that GR has is that it will always be a freeware. After all, the Kickstarter project is where the game will be on a "further development" where cherry toppings like KS Donor spectators, and I do see the point that the un-donated, un-full version of GR2 will act as a preview. However, one thing that hits me (sry for being late on this discussion, but...); if the GR2 "demo" were to act as a preview prior to the Kickstarter, I thought it would be better to have all GR1 features from the get-go for the demo, and put several GR2 features there.

But I might be wrong though...

And speaking about getting it to Steam, I don't support it. I don't think that we should need Steam for GR2. All I can say is keep it conventional and GR-esque

[puttz]

Here's a way to think of the payment: the main draw in the pay version would be the online play, so you're paying to be able to play the game online. I'm sure there are other games out there that use a model like that. You can play local for free, but to play online there will be some sort of fee. Hosting isn't free, you know, so that would be a way to support the online racing. That's fair in my opinion.

[resir014]

Valve is only giving temporary access to the games (which of course in practice is permanent), and it mostly requires you to be online to play, since the offline mode works quite sloppily

Offline mode works fine. I was away on holiday in a place with little to no internets, I carried my laptop over so I could play some games, and it works fine. You can play as long as you like, and when you get your internets back, it will sync your latest progress into the Steam Cloud so you can continue where you left off on any other computers.

[bduddy]

There are several factors in it. For example, people don't legally own the games bought from Steam, Valve is only giving temporary access to the games (which of course in practice is permanent), and it mostly requires you to be online to play, since the offline mode works quite sloppily, and Valve almost has monopoly on digital distribution of games, etc etc. Anyway people who don't like Steam are a minority.

Almost every non-free games has license terms that work the same way, although of course they have no way of taking it from you, unlike Steam. And I think their offline mode works much better now... Anyway, I don't think GR2 would be exclusively on Steam, right? James, can you confirm?

[Bouncebackability]

And speaking about getting it to Steam, I don't support it. I don't think that we should need Steam for GR2. All I can say is keep it conventional and GR-esque

So we have people here comenting how small the community is compared to some games, yet one of the top used services for game purchases/downloads is frowned upon.

Iracing has the same issue. People complain some racing doesn't have enough people involved, yet theses same people are reusing to back getting it onto steam.

Personally I think if GR2 gets onto steam it would be fantastic step forward.

All the best with your plans Dev team!

[Bird]

I want to ask something to Steam. I don't use it (because I don't have a good hardware to play modern games). But I know I a lot of people who use Steam and they buy new games very easily. Some people get very addicted of buying games because it's so simple (only needs one click). So Steam would be a chance for GR2.
So there are some games on Steam that don't require to be online all the time? That would be good. Second, does James has to give the license of Generally away to the people from Steam, so that there is no other possibility to sell Generally outside of Steam?

I will be very excited to see, how the system requirements will be for GR2. I own some PCs, that have the power of a toaster. I gave my Windows 98 machine a tune, so that it can run programms made for Windows XP. It don't works for GR1.10, but maybe for GR2, so I'm excited of the sequel.

[puttz]

I hope that Steam will not be the only way to purchase the game. James, can you shed some light on this question?

[duck]

gog.com could be used if being DRM-free is an issue.
The indie portal is here and could be looked into perhaps.

[1nsane]

Second, does James has to give the license of Generally away to the people from Steam, so that there is no other possibility to sell Generally outside of Steam?

The store part of Steam is just like any other web or real store. Valve gets x% share from the sale and that's it. While it's common to have an exclusive deal on the console side, it's something I haven't heard of has happened in PC side. Except for the obvious stuff like EA selling most of the games they published only in Origin. If Generally is self published by the dev-team, it would be marked as such. So pretty commonly the indie games have their own store where you get the game in the shape they want it to be. Be it DRM-free or with some preventing system coded in. Then they have the game also sold in places like Gog, Desura, GMG, Gamer's Gate, etc. Then, like with GR, at some point they could also have the game for sale in Steam.

[Buka]

Can someone explain to me how I need to donate money to get three full copies of GR? One payment for 24 pounds, or three payments for 8 pounds with one credit card, or three payments with three cards?

[TuomoH]

I haven't had much time lately and need time to fully digest all that has been said (the last few pages of this thread have been tiresome to read). However, this is how I feel.

It's good to criticize things, it's necessary for progress, but there's a difference between constructively criticizing and being, for the lack of a better word, hateful. I fully trust James, have always trusted, and even seeing him being open about changing the KS goals further strengthens my instinct. Maybe there are things that might be done differently, but a lot of thought has been put into this scheme, mostly based on the questionnaire that I believe most of us have completed.

With regard to the KS goal and perks, I'd love to have all the possible loot and will definitely donate a large sum of money since this game has given me so much fun over the years, and will continue to do so. However, I understand people's feelings that 25K is too much. This is what this discussion is for.

I don't have a problem at all about having pay and free versions. It's true that GR has been free but does that mean that the sequel - being a different game, remember - needs to be free for all features? I don't think it does. If you want to play it for free, go ahead. If you want to pay for extra features, which many will, good for you! As someone said, you will still get a free upgrade of the game we all love.

Furthermore, don't have a problem about Steam - in fact, I think it's a great opportunity. I'm one of those people who impulsively buy games at Steam that seem interesting even if I've never heard of them and I'm sure I'd buy GR2 too if I had never heard about it. I don't think it will be Steam-only, so adding it to Steam is just a plus.

My

[Hangman]

I'm afraid its trying to satisfy old players too hard. None of the features sound too impressive for someone who has never played the original version and the current community is quite small and thus there's not much money to be made.

I will be gladly proven wrong though, I hope you will succeed and we get a great game.

[resir014]

I hope that Steam will not be the only way to purchase the game. James, can you shed some light on this question?

Usually indie game developers put up a DRM-free version of their games on their own store alongside the Steam store.

Although I was the one skeptical about GR moving away from the freeware path, I wouldn't mind buying it if it's on Steam.