F1 -Season 2010 *spoiler*

[Trigger Happy]

The young trees are there ATM. I watched some helicopter pics, I was especially focused on this point and the young trees are there (about 1-1,5 m high, surrounding trees are much higher) and all old tarmac is gone. Only the castrato-track is there now.

[1nsane]

Yeah, there definitely are trees now, although small ones. And yes, the reason for the old one to be torn down was mostly because of the tree huggers. They had to pay back the loss of trees on the new sequence by planting new trees on the old track. It really is a shame they had to destroy that track.

And the same goes for destroying A1 Ring and now Donington...

[Trigger Happy]

Back to Ferrari's ''cheat'', I think, that all do that. I heard many times this season sentences like ''you need to save fuel'' or ''turn your engine to spare mode'' or ''you're short on fuel'' in moments, when a driver was very close to his team mate or eliminating the gap remarkably. It's same like Ferrari's ''You're slower than Fernando''. Major point is, that Ferrari wanted the change since beginning of the race. It should happen during pits, when Alonso went 1st for new tyres (otherwise leaving leader longer on poor tyres than P2 would be illogical disadvantage of Massa in lead), but it failed so they needed another and less elegant solution. And Ferrari did by stupid way - because Massa didn't want to accept it, he defended his position several times (suprisingly for team and even for Alonso too), Massa's engineer surely repeated it several times before the last warning, which was very strong order. IMHO Massa opposed to team for quite long and in final he decided to show it like Barichello did - he could do simple ''mistake under pressure'' in breaking to the hairpin, nobody would notice anything wrong and all would accept possibility of mistake, as he's ''worse'' of them especially on hard tyres and even he could say ''I did mistake, because I was reported to be slower than Alonso, so I pushed to be faster than he to win(!) the race, but I failed''. But he showed to whole world the true on exit of hairpin. He's not as soft sheep following orders without passion to title as all say. I bet some people in Ferrari are very angry on him right now.

[Flaming_Wuzzle]

and now Donington...

Well, about that, the track was bought by a new company that has been restoring/upgrading everything, and they're supposed to start racing again later this year.

So not quite destroyed.

[Alex]

Extremely sorry for a but it seems that everyone has forgotten about a thread that's suppose to be buzzing with replies. I was just about to call this sport "Fixed One" until lap 39 when Alonso just got in front of Button and won the race. Yes i do hate the british drivers and Mclaren which is why i was going to call it that. IMO they should do something about the first corner because it is a right hander, thus giving the 2nd and 4th placers an advantage over the 1st and 3rd placers. They are parallel to each other which just adds to this unfairness, here is what i mean:
Monza:
1 2
3 4
5 6
What it should be:
1
2
3
4
5
6
Either reverse the track so the faster cars get an advantage or remove the first two corners and let them plow on for the long straight.

[Alonsomania]

Pole Position always starts on the racing line, just happens to be on the outside for Monza.

[GeneSuomi]

I think it's a bit ridiculous that Vettel could drove the whole race with soft tires. They should be so soft that you can't do even half the race.

[Alex]

Exactly. You could probably do the whole race without needing a tyre change, remember Pedro De La Rosa a few races ago?

[Bouncebackability]

yeah i think thats definately something i hope pirelli sort out. soft tyres should be useless after average 15-20 laps, hard tyres after 40...

but they probably wont

[1nsane]

I wonder if Bridgestone is going to do the same as they did in Hungary.. Right now the difference between the compounds is too small. Welp, it will propably be changed totally for next year anyway.

Actually the cars are pretty often lined up so the 1st driver is on the outside of the curve. And as Alonsomania said, that is the racing line. In Monza it obviously doesn't help much if the other one gets a better start. Having the first set of corners removed would indeed be fun, but it would also be dangerous and a half these days.

The race itself was actually a surprisingly interesting one. I wasn't expecting much of it, since Monza hasn't provided the most exciting races in the last few years, but this time there were some nice battles going on all the time. I just really wish Webber wouldn't screw up the start atleast once. Now he lost so many important points over Hamilton.

[Alex]

Talking about favouritism, never mind Alonso a couple of races ago, In Belgium 2009 Kimi Raikkonen won Ferrari's only race in the '09 season and at the end, expecting to hear Martin Brundles, Eddie Jordans and Jake Humphreys butthurt cries that Jenson or Lewis didn't win and that Ferrari dominated from the start instead they had about 20 minutes talking about the losers and at the end they apologised saying that Raikkonen won and we're sorry about it or something like that.

[Trigger Happy]

Well, some kind of sleeping. Maybe I'll wake us up. What do you think about 2013+ engine perspectives? Inline engine of 160ccm with 4 cylinders, 2 turbos on 3 Bar units resulting into 650HP a.k.a. ''World engine''?

I think, that awful, I worry about no sound and dehonesting F1 engines. Now VW or FIAT could make one engine, on half put brands Škoda/Fiat for WRC and second half of almost same engines with brand Audi or Bugatti/Ferrari, but it will be same recycled thing like when you now buy civic cars. And those parameters are average-class, F1 should IMHO have outstanding engines somehow (similar engines could fit better F3/F2).

No problem of small size, I can imagine e.g. 1800ccm, but in V12 and 3 turbos (one per each 4Vs). What your opinion and your ''ideal F1 engine'', guys?

[Quklis]

No problem of small size, I can imagine e.g. 1800ccm, but in V12 and 3 turbos (one per each 4Vs). What your opinion and your ''ideal F1 engine'', guys?

W16 with at least 3.0 litres

[Alonsomania]

3.5L V12

[Alex]

I don't like the way F1 is heading. If EccleStoned finally gets put 6 feet under, Hockenheim gets reborn and they return USA and France to the F1 calendar, it would be better. IMHO if they keep lowering the power limit down, the next decades' F1 cars will be slower than a ten year old F3 car, or even the Life L190. Seriously, 1985's F1 cars would pwn todays' F1 cars easily. Here are the things F1 needs to do to become the action packed thriller that we last saw 5 years ago:
Raise power limits (it would be fun to see 240mph+ F1 cars with over 1000bhp!)
Add KERS (this would make overtaking much more easier)
Remove Traction control (this would stop the noobs from winning)
Relegalise Turbos (more power!!!111!!)
Give teams limited funds (this would make us see overtaking like it was 20 years ago)

[Alonsomania]

The only thing they need to fix is the retarded aero package they are using and find a way to remove the dirty air flow. Cars are fast enough, due to the aerodynamics they just cant pass each other. Thats the whole issue.

[Mr.J]

If EccleStoned finally gets put 6 feet under,

OK... Crossing the line a bit?

[Alonsomania]

Well, you can't really say that what he has done for the sport has been good

[Alex]

Well he was ok a couple of decades ago, but since 2000 he has torn up the sport, such as allowing Hermann Tilke to destroy Hockenheim and just becoming weird.

[Mr.J]

Well, you can't really say that what he has done for the sport has been good

Totally agree! He is destroying F1 and fast, i just found alex's way of putting it repulsive.

[Alonsomania]

Well he was ok a couple of decades ago, but since 2000 he has torn up the sport, such as allowing Hermann Tilke to destroy Hockenheim and just becoming weird.

He killed everything that was starting to get near F1 popularity lol.

WRC (1986), WTCC (1987), WSPC (1992/1993), DTM (1996), you name it.

[1nsane]

@Alex, they haven't had the TC for a few years now.

And well... I don't think they need more power. They just need to have the rev-limiter taken away. We would even have a bigger chance of someone retiring because of messing it up and cooking the engine. I don't really care about how many cylinders the engine has or how many turbos it has, as long as it just creates the same amount of BHP as the current motors.

Also, remove most of the aero grip and add the mechanical grip. There's no point in having the extra speed if you can't use it.

[Trigger Happy]

@Alex, they haven't had the TC for a few years now.

I'm not sure, I think, that they have it, but it's active only since a speed (+100kph?) and in low speed (like on start or in pits) it's inactive, but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't really care about how many cylinders the engine has or how many turbos it has, as long as it just creates the same amount of BHP as the current motors.

When I see F1, I want to see something special. Even in concept. Not the same engine like every second car has, when I walk in front of a supermarket. For V4 with 650HP I don't need to watch F1 technology, when I can see even more powerful engines in Rallycross.

Also, remove most of the aero grip and add the mechanical grip. There's no point in having the extra speed if you can't use it.

We have no chance. Since unification of tyres the teams cannot improve the mechanical grip very much I'm afraid (they only can build the car ''bad'' like Mercedes did), but if they want more grip and cannot balance performance by having more power of engines than others (frozen technology), their only serious chance during season, how to push forward their car, is to improve their aeropacks by all skill and money, which they have, I believe. No matter, which are rules, the aerogrip will increase always since previous cars IMHO.

BTW I would love to see big atmospheric V12 too as best like some of you, the noted idea (with V12 1800, each V having 0,15L) would be my solution for low-cubic engine. W16 seems to be not good idea for monoposto to me.

But I would like to have back clutch and manual shifting. Some legend told, that a major reason for overtaking in whole pre-'90s days were moments, when a driver in front failed in shifting (too late, wrong gear, wrong work with clutch etc), which cost him speed on exit of curves (resulting in lower top speed on straight), so the driver behind had good chance to hunt him down on the straight, if he shifted better. I quite believe him, that it would help, now there is no difference between drivers and no chance on fail.

[1nsane]

I'm not sure, I think, that they have it, but it's active only since a speed (+100kph?) and in low speed (like on start or in pits) it's inactive, but maybe I'm wrong.

As far as I know, they banned it completely. The cars are just currently creating so much of downforce, that they wouldn't really even need traction control in the speeds of over 100kph. This is well proven this year bey Red Bull going through some of the corners flatout while in the previous years it wasn't possible.

I don't really care about how many cylinders the engine has or how many turbos it has, as long as it just creates the same amount of BHP as the current motors.

When I see F1, I want to see something special. Even in concept. Not the same engine like every second car has, when I walk in front of a supermarket. For V4 with 650HP I don't need to watch F1 technology, when I can see even more powerful engines in Rallycross.

True... But if that's the way it has to go, I would rather see that than cutting the sports. If they really were to change the motor rules, what I would like to see is the introduction of hybrid technology. So if the team wants to go on 100% petrol motor, they would have to use these "Civic motors", but if they, they would still be allowed to run with... Say.. Maybe even V10 motors.

We have no chance. (Aero stuff)

Actually, we do. It just requires some activity from the FIA in allowing some old technology, such as the ground effect. They could even make the tires wider. And they could iron out some of the loopholes of the aerodynamic stuff. If you compare the front wings of these days to the ones in 2009, you can see that there are clearly some holes. Otherwise the wings would still be practically just planks. And this is what it should be. One big plank with another smaller blank that they can turn to get more or less downforce and that's it.

Some pics to prove the issue...
Beginning of 2009

Mid 2010

They shouldn't have changed the rules since 2009 regarding the front (and rear) wings, so these kind of changes shouldn't really be possible. That's why they should atleast revert the wings back to the way they were in the beginning of 2009.

Next year they will have those moving parts in the wings that they can use to pass someone in the front. I'm afraid this will have some new major loopholes that causes the wings to look eeven more monstrous.

But I would like to have back clutch and manual shifting. Some legend told, that a major reason for overtaking in whole pre-'90s days were moments, when a driver in front failed in shifting (too late, wrong gear, wrong work with clutch etc), which cost him speed on exit of curves (resulting in lower top speed on straight), so the driver behind had good chance to hunt him down on the straight, if he shifted better. I quite believe him, that it would help, now there is no difference between drivers and no chance on fail.

Yeah, that would be a good one, accompanied with the free revs.


Then switching the talk from the cars to tracks, I really didn't like how the drivers could cut the shicanes so easily at Monza. On the first shicane the asphalt part (the Superbike part) really made it easier for the drivers to cut the corner. This was proven in the way how Hülkenberg could still retain his place after messing up the braking so badly.
And on the second shicane the "sleeping whatevermen" weren't long enough so cars could just go around them and practically lose no time, rather gain it. Why can't they create some sort of safepit material to real world that would cause the cars to slow down by themselves...

[Paw]

And on the second shicane the "sleeping whatevermen" weren't long enough so cars could just go around them and practically lose no time, rather gain it. Why can't they create some sort of safepit material to real world that would cause the cars to slow down by themselves...

I didn't watch the race, they did go that much on the inside, that the black-yellow thing wasn't even there? Well, I think that could help:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/features/earnhardt.jpg